The Type 97 is back . . .

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adrian118 said:
I put my order in sometime this morning. Second time around should ensure they dont get taken away! Learned from previous mistakes lol.
Im new at this bullpup stuff but arent bullpup style rifles prohibited in canada?
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I think it is alright if they are built that way but you can not make a normal rifle in to a bull-pup.






Don't take my word on that.. I forgot a bunch of stuff when I went to banned camp. :yingyang:
 
Hear you on that. $1000 Bullpup, .223, gaurenteed to give Wendy a heart attack! I think I need 2 more for my kids. Maybe paint one pink for my daughter!
 
Adub said:
My MR1 works fine with the one pmag I have. The XCR 10 round mags on the other hand are a pain in the ass.

Any specs out on OAL and weight on the new type 97?
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Stolen from world.guns.ru (added the imperial measurements myself)

Data for QBZ-95 (QBZ-97 in parenthesizes, where differs from QBZ-95)
Caliber: 5.8x42 mm (5.56x45 mm NATO)
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 760 mm (29.9")***
Barrel length: 520 mm (20.4")***
Weight: 3.4 kg unloaded (7.48lbs)***
Rate of fire: ~ 650 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
 
Ar180shooter said:
You also have to keep in mind that all of the other bullpups are 2x or 3x the price of the Norinco. Generally, the norc becoming wouldn't significantly cut in to the market where the Tavor would be. If you're willing to spend almost $3k on a Tavor, 99% of the time you'll go for the Tavor over the norc. If anything, the Norc will give greater competition to rifles like the Benelli MR1 and CSA VZ-58.
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I would have to disagree with this statement. I think the Type 97 will cut into the Tavor market. I just pre-ordered a type 97 and was planning on buying a Tavor. . . and why not I don’t think your getting that much more rifle in the Tavor then the 97. Not $2000 more anyways. . . .
 
Enfield said:
I would have to disagree with this statement. I think the Type 97 will cut into the Tavor market. I just pre-ordered a type 97 and was planning on buying a Tavor. . . and why not I don’t think your getting that much more rifle in the Tavor then the 97. Not $2000 more anyways. . . .
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And IMHO you're the exception to the rule. The norc looks like it's a great rifle, and it's definitely more affordable than the Tavor, but it is a much older design, and the Tavor offers several improvements over the T97. One of the biggies is the factory picatinny rail. This makes it much easier to mount optics. On the T97, you need an adapter and it pushes the sight up higher, compromising your cheek weld. There are other ergonomic enhancements that the Tavor has over the T97 too, but I digress.

It's kinda like comparing a CSA and a Swiss Arms. The CSA is much more affordable, and you see many more out there. The Swiss Arms is more expensive, but a much more modern design, and has better ergonomics/features. I've owned both, and now I own 2 Swiss Arms and 0 CSA's/VZ58's. I'd hardly say the .223 CSA's coming on to the market had a significant impact on Swiss Arms sales. Different target audience IMO.
 
DaveMachine said:
Make it a flat top and put the charging handle on the left side (swappable of course) and you'd have a winner. Mounting optics looks impractical so I think I'd pass in favour of the Tavor or FS2000.
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Good idea! It is the horrendous carrying handle and front sight that makes it look ridiculous.
 
Ar180shooter said:
You also have to keep in mind that all of the other bullpups are 2x or 3x the price of the Norinco. Generally, the norc becoming wouldn't significantly cut in to the market where the Tavor would be. If you're willing to spend almost $3k on a Tavor, 99% of the time you'll go for the Tavor over the norc. If anything, the Norc will give greater competition to rifles like the Benelli MR1 and CSA VZ-58.
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You were not on CGN when the Norinco t 97 came out. Our search system is limited to 3 years and it was a quite a bit before that. Dr. Lector shot some very impressive groups with the restricted model. If he is still around he could elaborate. I was interested in the Tavor, however I looked at the accuracy that folks are getting and I realized that I would get bored with it pretty quick. So I would be in the 1 percent that can easily afford a 3000 Tavor and passed on it.
 
Enfield said:
I would have to disagree with this statement. I think the Type 97 will cut into the Tavor market. I just pre-ordered a type 97 and was planning on buying a Tavor. . . and why not I don’t think your getting that much more rifle in the Tavor then the 97. Not $2000 more anyways. . . .
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Same here, I was going to buy a tavor and then this came up! Hopefully I am not disappointed.
 
Somebody should update the Wiki page.

Civilian variants
Two sporterized, semi-automatic only rifles based upon the QBZ-97A assault rifle and the QBZ-97B assault carbine have been developed for the civilian market, the Type 97 rifle and the Type 97A carbine. They are chambered for the .223 Remington cartridge and are fed by STANAG magazines.[20][21]
Type 97A carbines became available in Canada in 2008, were classified as Non-Restricted by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), and sold to general public. In January 2009, a shipment of Type 97 firearms was approved by the RCMP for retail sale, but later confiscated and seized by Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officers.[22] Around the same time a second shipment of Type 97A restricted firearms was also stopped by CBSA. On March 22, 2010 about 35 civilian owners of the Type 97A carbine originally imported by Lever Arms of BC (The only version ever available for sale) were sent notice by the RCMP indicating that status of their firearm have been changed to 12.2 prohibited (Fully automatic), and owners without such a firearm license have 30 days to turn in their Type 97A firearm to either individual or business that has such a license, or to police for destruction.[23] Canadian Type-97 owners initiated a reference hearing, to establish legality of re-classification of the Type-97 semi-automatic weapon to prohibited status. In early 2012 the challenge was lost, and judge was convinced that Type-97 firearms indeed are prohibited devices.[citation needed] While the exact details of the modification are kept secret, RCMP firearm technicians, allegedly, demonstrated to an expert on the defense side, that the Type-97 firearm can be readily and easily converted to fully automatic mode of operation in short time and with commonly available tools. As a result, Type-97 firearms were confiscated from the owners, and are no-longer legal for civilian ownership in Canada (even for people with the so-called 12.2 fully automatic firearm license).
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h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95
 
JBD said:
You were not on CGN when the Norinco t 97 came out. Our search system is limited to 3 years and it was a quite a bit before that. Dr. Lector shot some very impressive groups with the restricted model. If he is still around he could elaborate. I was interested in the Tavor, however I looked at the accuracy that folks are getting and I realized that I would get bored with it pretty quick. So I would be in the 1 percent that can easily afford a 3000 Tavor and passed on it.
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I've never seen a good accuracy test done with the Tavor. Sure, lots of guys get 2-3MOA with different kinds of bulk ammo, but has anyone taken some good time to develop some really decent hand loads and taken the time to shoot the groups while letting the barrel cool down?

Also, sure I wasn't on CGN, but I was born and shooting before I joined 3 years ago. ;)
 
JBD said:
You were not on CGN when the Norinco t 97 came out. Our search system is limited to 3 years and it was a quite a bit before that. Dr. Lector shot some very impressive groups with the restricted model. If he is still around he could elaborate. I was interested in the Tavor, however I looked at the accuracy that folks are getting and I realized that I would get bored with it pretty quick. So I would be in the 1 percent that can easily afford a 3000 Tavor and passed on it.
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The thread is still there if you know how to search. I won't post the link because the good Doctor would only get embarrassed by it again (when he should be proud). I think the Doc would be the first to tell you that it was the ammo in those tests that was responsible for the great accuracy, but I think he custom modded the scope mount and also re-crowned the barrel.

The T97 I owned was acceptably accurate but certainly wasn't a tac driver. But then, I can't shoot like Dr. Lector.
 
Clobbersauras said:
The thread is still there if you know how to search. I won't post the link because the good Doctor would only get embarrassed by it again (when he should be proud). I think the Doc would be the first to tell you that it was the ammo in those tests that was responsible for the great accuracy, but I know he custom modded the scope mount and also re-crowned the barrel.

The T97 I owned was acceptably accurate but certainly wasn't a tac driver. But then, I can't shoot like Dr. Lector.
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Post the link! :ang3
 
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