With todays bullets, powders and scopes with turrets, I don't think we need the huge case capacity of the 378 to qualify as the "do all" anymore. The 375 Ruger, the obsolete 375 H&H or even the 375 RUM would all work in this case, assuming one matched bullet to task and knew how to adjust a scope to shoot at distance.
The World of Cartridges and Compromises........
- Thread starter c-fbmi
- Start date
Well, damn me, you're entirely correct! Thanks for making me research it further, Gatehouse. I should have remembered that not all of Alexander's armies were Macedonian, by a long shot. C-fbmi, you weren't entirely wrong, my apologies.
From India, military thinking on the use of war elephants spread westwards to the Persian Empire, where they were used in several campaigns and in turn came to influence the campaigns of Alexander the Great. The first confrontation between Europeans and the Persian war elephants occurred at the Alexander's Battle of Gaugamela (331 BC), where the Persians deployed fifteen elephants. These elephants were placed at the centre of the Persian line and made such an impression on the Macedonian troops that Alexander felt the need to sacrifice to the God of Fear the night before the battle - but according to some sources the elephants ultimately failed to deploy in the final battle owing to their long march the day before. Alexander won resoundingly at Gaugamela, but was deeply impressed by the enemy elephants and took these first fifteen into his own army, adding to their number during his capture of the rest of Persia.
By the time Alexander reached the borders of India five years later, he had a substantial number of elephants under his own command.
By the time Alexander reached the borders of India five years later, he had a substantial number of elephants under his own command.
Well, I'm glad to not be wrong........I thought Alexander used elephants, but of course Hannibal was the one noted more in history for it.
Gate....as far as bullets and optics making up for other cartridge deficiencies, again this is just more compromise. The other cartridges you mentioned will not get the velocities with 250-260 gn bullets, that the 378 will and therefore are not as flat, therefore they are a compromise. Which illustrates my point even more........we seek advancement in other equipment to attempt to offset or negate the compromises we make with cartridges. If one boils everything down to the barest of bones, we make virtually all compromises in order to change one aspect.........recoil. I have heard people say smaller cartridges are more desirable because they are more accurate, to which I say BS. Some of my bigger bores have been some of the most accurate rifles I have shot. I had a Ruger #1 in 458 WM that put 5 shots of old factory "yellow box" W-W loads into one ragged hole measuring less than 1/4" @ 100 mtrs. The same with my 450 Ackley, it would shoot 5 shots into a ragged hole when I was up to the task. The reality is smaller cartridges are not more accurate in fact, but they are easier for the average shooter, to shoot more accurately.
I know many on here were expecting a dissertation on the 340 Weatherby, and don't get me wrong, I still love the cartridge and would hunt anything anywhere with it and appropriate bullets. However it is still the little brother to the 378 and anything the 340 does, the 378 does, and does it with more authority. If one wishes to research the 378 as I have, you will find as I did, that it has no peers in the world of sporting cartridge ballistics. It is absolutely the undisputed KING of the heap, as a one gun does all cartridge. There are cartridges that are slightly flatter shooting but not enough within reasonable hunting ranges (let's say 5-600 mtrs) to make any difference at all. And on the upper end there are many that have greater bone crushing close up energy, but again the 378 is up there as well and is considered more than adequate for the biggies.
I believe that if one could tame the recoil to that of a 22-250, the 378 Weatherby would be a much more popular cartridge, in fact I suspect it would be the most popular cartridge on the planet........... 
Gate....as far as bullets and optics making up for other cartridge deficiencies, again this is just more compromise. The other cartridges you mentioned will not get the velocities with 250-260 gn bullets, that the 378 will and therefore are not as flat, therefore they are a compromise. Which illustrates my point even more........we seek advancement in other equipment to attempt to offset or negate the compromises we make with cartridges. If one boils everything down to the barest of bones, we make virtually all compromises in order to change one aspect.........recoil. I have heard people say smaller cartridges are more desirable because they are more accurate, to which I say BS. Some of my bigger bores have been some of the most accurate rifles I have shot. I had a Ruger #1 in 458 WM that put 5 shots of old factory "yellow box" W-W loads into one ragged hole measuring less than 1/4" @ 100 mtrs. The same with my 450 Ackley, it would shoot 5 shots into a ragged hole when I was up to the task. The reality is smaller cartridges are not more accurate in fact, but they are easier for the average shooter, to shoot more accurately.
I know many on here were expecting a dissertation on the 340 Weatherby, and don't get me wrong, I still love the cartridge and would hunt anything anywhere with it and appropriate bullets. However it is still the little brother to the 378 and anything the 340 does, the 378 does, and does it with more authority. If one wishes to research the 378 as I have, you will find as I did, that it has no peers in the world of sporting cartridge ballistics. It is absolutely the undisputed KING of the heap, as a one gun does all cartridge. There are cartridges that are slightly flatter shooting but not enough within reasonable hunting ranges (let's say 5-600 mtrs) to make any difference at all. And on the upper end there are many that have greater bone crushing close up energy, but again the 378 is up there as well and is considered more than adequate for the biggies.
I believe that if one could tame the recoil to that of a 22-250, the 378 Weatherby would be a much more popular cartridge, in fact I suspect it would be the most popular cartridge on the planet...........
Have you hunted a lot with the 378 Douglas ?
A friend has had one for decades and aside from a 257 Weatherby it is all he uses.
It has all the recoil I want, but it's incredibly accurate beyond 300 yds.
He is like me, a small man but much more accustomed to handling the 378 and he loves it.
As for when it comes to the 375 I am quite comfortable with the old and thoroughly modern 375 H&H..
A friend has had one for decades and aside from a 257 Weatherby it is all he uses.
It has all the recoil I want, but it's incredibly accurate beyond 300 yds.
He is like me, a small man but much more accustomed to handling the 378 and he loves it.
As for when it comes to the 375 I am quite comfortable with the old and thoroughly modern 375 H&H..
Nope Kevan, my opinions expressed above is completely based on paper ballistics, I haven't spend one day in the field with my 378. I have shot it and it is not as bad as I anticipated, but only with factory 270s. Which without chronographing I would have to say they are running about what my 9.3X300WM does with 270s so of course recoil is very similar. I don't find my 9.3 to be bad at all so until I start pumping out the 325 Matrix bullets I don't see an issue with the 378, and even then it won't likely be an issue. It is a definite recoil step up from the H&H. I too find the H&H to be as comfortable as an old pair of slippers, and as reliable. This is just an exercise in theoretical external ballistic masturbation, really, but the numbers are what they are and they don't lie.......other than to derate the true capabilities of the 378 Wby by about 200 fps. On paper, and I'm certain in the field as well, this is a truly impressive cartridge without an honest ballistic peer.
Mig, Mig, Mig..........this is not a discussion about the positive and/or negative attributes of the 375 H&H, let's stay on topic, OK?
A guy can't troll?
The 378 is a compromise, general practicality is being sacrificed for a 500 yard elephant gun.
In the words of someone else, it is powerful enough to kill an elephant and heavy enough to kill a packhorse.
I've often wondered if the big 378 cases are not too loud to be shot without hearing protection anyways. The 338-378 I had was not something I would shoot without protection without the muzzle brake (did that once by accident) and certainly not with the muzzle brake on.
They have some pretty neat electronic hearing protection now that fits in your ears like hearing aids almost. Wearing something like that and braking a 378 might just be a compromise worth considering.
They have some pretty neat electronic hearing protection now that fits in your ears like hearing aids almost. Wearing something like that and braking a 378 might just be a compromise worth considering.
I think the trade off is more than just recoil. Everything about the WBY is more, for just 6-8" flatter trajectory at 500 yards over the NEW KING or HH. Even less is gained over the RUM.
No doubt the WBY is a powerhouse. I've shot them braked (ignorantly loud) and not braked. Actually prefer not braked due to the noise. Is it no compromise or is it the ultimate compromise? Think that one through for a bit.
People think big cartridges are less accurate than small ones because they cringe and flinch when they pull the trigger.
No doubt the WBY is a powerhouse. I've shot them braked (ignorantly loud) and not braked. Actually prefer not braked due to the noise. Is it no compromise or is it the ultimate compromise? Think that one through for a bit.
People think big cartridges are less accurate than small ones because they cringe and flinch when they pull the trigger.
Your statement in and of itself is a compromise........you have excluded every other animal on the planet from bison on up and have only included 8 animals on your list.
Not quite but then I never chronographed the 378 to be certain of the factory claimed ballistics. I did chronograph the 9.3 at approaching 3100 with a 270 though. Also my Sako AV 9.3 is somewhat lighter than the Mark V so I suspect the recoil is very similar.
I would say with modern lighter weight bullets the .375 H&H or Ruger could do well at longer ranges. A 200gr GS custom at 3000fps+ should take of most mountain or plains ranges that the vast majority of hunters in this world are capable of reliably taking game at...
Also, with modern bullets, and where legal the .338 Win (or similar) or .358 Norma could easily do most chores very well. On large, thick skinned dangerous game one would need some prudence and patience but you still wouldn't be unreasonably or irresponsibly under gunned.
Also, with modern bullets, and where legal the .338 Win (or similar) or .358 Norma could easily do most chores very well. On large, thick skinned dangerous game one would need some prudence and patience but you still wouldn't be unreasonably or irresponsibly under gunned.
You're shooting a smaller diameter 270 gr bullet out of a 94gr of water case at the same speed as a larger diameter 270 gr bullet out of a 120gr of water case loaded to 65 0000 PSI. I know you're an experienced reloader Doug but I'd be curious to see the pressure of some of your loads.
Depends what powder, but say H4831SC is used...According to Quickload, it's abotu 82K PSI. RL22 can get you down to 75K PSI, but it's 117% load, so may not actually fit a bullet!
Top 65K PSI loads would use RL17/W760 at about 2800-2850PSI
If a guy hunted the globe, he can afford lose some opportunities by stalking within 400 yards and using a 375 Ruger, housed in a more portable, usable rifle than a 10+lb, 26"+brake 378 Wby. The 378, like all Wby cartridges, are stuck in the 1960's
Not many serious hunters use Weatherbys for a reason
Not many serious hunters use Weatherbys for a reason
there is an hype on the 338 rum and lapua but none on the 340 weatherby: despite that caliber was ahead long time ago .... and you can use 375hh brass ... and no need a 10 lbs rifle.
