Thinking about a Schmidt-Rubin Model 1889

Nabs

Nabs

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I have been looking at acquiring a Schmidt-Rubin Model 1889 for sometime now. I rather like the look of them along with the magazine (reminds me of an SVT40). I also like the fact that they are the beginning line of the Schmidt-Rubin rifles and are similar to a Gewehr 88 in terms of paving the way for the rest.

I know the actions and the bolt are not as strong as the 1896/11 and later models so I did some digging online after talking with a friend and found some interesting results from other fellow shooters (alot of good info on Swiss Rifles forums.com):

1. You can re-size .284 Winchester brass or trim down 7.5x55 Swiss brass
2. Hand load a light load for the cartridge, it seems the general premence is to keep to the pressure under 39,000.
3. Some were using copper jacketed bullets in the 200 gr range with flat bases while others were casting their own.

I would like to cast but I do not have the equipment or experience to do it yet so that leaves buying bullets on the commercial market. Also, it seems there isn't a "one good load" as I found about four of them. One was with "IMR 4198 with 26 gr and a cotton wad along with a gas checked Lee bullet of 160gr" from the Swiss Rifle forums and this is one load that caught my eye as I use IMR 4198 for reloading.

For those that have shot the 1889, what have been your experiences ? Do you have a load that works quite nicely ? Anything you have noticed with your 1889s that would be worth mentioning ?

Finally, I have seen a few 1889s floating around but not as many as other Swiss rifles. Full military seems to be hard to locate too as I have run into a lot of sporters. Does anyone have a location on a full military one for a good price ?

Thank you for the help everyone :).
 
That is what I read and confirmed as well. I am use to loading light loads for my Gewehr 88s and I think it is safe to treat the actions of an 1889 like one.

Hodgdon reloading data center does not have any pressure data for their 7.5x55 Swiss loads so trying to find a nice light load isn't as easy as it was for 8mm Mauser. Is there a pressure formula for figuring out the pressure with a given load and bullet weight ?
 
Nice one went at that Maynard auction yesterday.

89s aren't hard to find; it's STOCKS that are hard to find. I have 2 that are badly cut-down, 1 which is completely #####ed into a .30-30 sporter, gave another one away. Last one I found at a small-town gun show; I wanted the mag but it was $50... or $35 if I took the whole gun. Shoots REAL nice, too. It has a Home now!

These things are machined just wonderfully; inside looks like a watch. Bohler barrels, too.

Barrels are 3 grooves and they are designed to last and last. Can be very accurate.

CONSISTENCY in your handloads is more important than a particular "pet load". With good brass (I am using Norma) and 1/20 of a grain accuracy in the powder charges, just so long as you stick with a powder that burns IN the barrel rather than out the muzzle, you will get decent shooting. Not much recoil, but I'm using mild loads.

I just use standard 7.5x55 brass. The rifle has no issues with it, therefore neither do I.

My loads are running 3031 powder these days. Tried some of the Remington bulk-pack 165s and had nice work on the 100-yard tin cans.

Nice old rifles.

Hope this helps.
.
 
Thank you for your insight, smellie :).

I have not used 3031 before(it is the IMR powder, right ?), and I am wondering what charge you used ? Did you use a cotton wad ?

It is interesting to hear you had no issues with the 7.5x55mm brass as I read posts from a few people on the Swiss rifle forum where they said the standard brass was difficult to chamber. I guess it depends on the rifle itself ?

Since I have not trimmed my cases in the past, would I trim 1.5mm off of the 7.5x55mm case neck to get 53-54mm and then resize in the die if required ?

Thanks for the help :).
 
Throats taper quite a bit for the original paper patch load so case length is not too much of a concern, unless you perhaps come across an immaculate min spec chamber. Nah!

Some have had very good results with 170 gr bore riding bullets designed for the 30-30 case. My first Swiss rifle was/is an cut down stock 1889 with original length barrel still in 7.5.

Just separate the brass so it will only be used in that rifle. Crimping might be a good idea to get consistent ignition to avoid sooty case necks at low pressure.
 
I asked for pictures on that one, I'm looking forward to seeing what comes up.

I also read about paper patching, would this be required for regular operation ?
 
Not necessary. Just saying throat was cut like a forcing cone in a revolver to take paper patched Hollow base lead bullet with a steel cap, roughly .32" diameter around the paper, and bring down to the rifle diameter of .307"±.

I only know of a few people who have gone the route of paper patching for the 1889. I was tempted too, but just can't justify the extra time.
 
Feed the rifle what it likes best out of what you can get.

Personally, having worked with paper for many years, I really don't like the idea of paper-patching a bullet unless I have to. Paper can be terribly erosive if a dry, tight-fitting piece is slammed down a barrel at half a mile a second. Remember, the stuff can dull scissors and take the edge off a heavy shop-type paper knife. Paper patches on Swiss bullets were a holdover from the rimfire 10.4mm cartridge; the Italian Vetterlis didn't use them.

But what the gun wants is the governing factor.

Look at Sniders: NINE Marks of ammunition designed and standardised in a period of just 5 years and NONE of them especially accurate. But you CAN get accuracy from a Snider simply by using an oversize bullet, exactly as do modern rifles. They were trying to use muzzleloader SOLUTIONS to a breechloader PROBLEM.

So feed your Schmitt what it likes.

Mine likes the soft-jacketed Remington flatbase 165s, so that's what I feed it. Otherwise, my handloads for the old thing are down at the bottom of the page. No GP-11 loads for these old girls, even though they likely digested it in the Service!

Hope this helps.
.
 
I have a cut down 1889 hanging around here.
I have three complete Swiss rifles, the 1889, 1896/11, and the 1911 carbine with the 18.75", 1911 Engineering bayonet. Which ones take the stripper clip device made out of treated paper and lite metal or tin material? I have a few of them with fired brass in them but I didn't check to see if they are 7.5mm.
 
smellie said:
Nice one went at that Maynard auction yesterday.

89s aren't hard to find; it's STOCKS that are hard to find. I have 2 that are badly cut-down, 1 which is completely #####ed into a .30-30 sporter, gave another one away. Last one I found at a small-town gun show; I wanted the mag but it was $50... or $35 if I took the whole gun. Shoots REAL nice, too. It has a Home now!

These things are machined just wonderfully; inside looks like a watch. Bohler barrels, too.

Barrels are 3 grooves and they are designed to last and last. Can be very accurate.

CONSISTENCY in your handloads is more important than a particular "pet load". With good brass (I am using Norma) and 1/20 of a grain accuracy in the powder charges, just so long as you stick with a powder that burns IN the barrel rather than out the muzzle, you will get decent shooting. Not much recoil, but I'm using mild loads.

I just use standard 7.5x55 brass. The rifle has no issues with it, therefore neither do I.

My loads are running 3031 powder these days. Tried some of the Remington bulk-pack 165s and had nice work on the 100-yard tin cans.

Nice old rifles.

Hope this helps.
.
Click to expand...

Really hard to believe the quality of these things. I've got beat up old 1911, so it's around a hundred years old. Stock has been hacked and looks like a truck drove over it, but not a speck of rust or discoloration on the steel. Stocks being so hard to come by, I'm toying with the idea of trying to just replace the cut off section. Judging by all the comments, this must have been one of Bubba's favorite projects, at one time.:D
 
I saw pictures of the Swiss stripper clips and they are a far cry from the sheer visual quality and appeal of their rifles. Perhaps they were scrapping the bottom of the budget barrel for these ?
 
Nabs said:
I saw pictures of the Swiss stripper clips and they are a far cry from the sheer visual quality and appeal of their rifles. Perhaps they were scrapping the bottom of the budget barrel for these ?
Click to expand...


or trying to avoid lawsuits from mauser or mannlicher.
 
They (the chargers) actually work very well and have the advantage that they keep snow and ice off the bullets.
Very handy when skiing and camping out in the mountain slopes. :)
Cardboard is shellacked, so pretty much waterproof.

P1010343-1.jpg
 
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Interesting, they certainly look to have taken qualities from both Mauser and Mannlicher.

Are the red and white examples for training ?
 
Blanks:
P1010048-1.jpg


Red for Dummy rounds:
50319927yvfCyt_ph.jpg


Violet for AP
6051666796f1657828419f79420d7337982e1753_r.jpg


White also used for newer blanks with green plastic tips and older version with green dyed wooden bullets:
bl2.jpg


ht tp://theswissriflesdotcommessageboard.yuku.com/reply/9967/It-s-amazing-what-you-find#reply-9967

Chargers are removed immediately after loading, just in case anyone thinks they might stay in the mag as they do in the older Steyr rifles.
 
Imitation, the most sincerest form of flattery.

Parashooter made copies of the Swiss chargers for his US and Norwegian Krags.


Kragcharger1.jpg


Kragcharger2.jpg
 
Check the Switzerland - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=129-switzerland

1891 Model 1889 Schmidt Rubin Infantry Rifle (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=281-1891-Model-1889-Schmidt-Rubin-Infantry-Rifle
(Serial # 192 - Manufactured in 1891)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Note: The special removable clip is to hold magazine lever in down position. It's rare to find one with the rifle itself anymore

CAUTION: DO NOT shoot the M1889 Schmidt-Rubin using standard 7.5 x 55 Swiss (GP11) military surplus ammunition. Refer to collector feedback in the MKL entry.

Regards,
Doug
 
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