Thinking About Becoming A Gunsmith

Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
You just said "I MO they're just hacks cashing in on those too inept to know which end of a screwdriver to hold on to." Changing tires, brake pads, and changing brake lines is so easy, I could do it even if I was shot in the left side of head. I don't even understand how people need a mechanic to get it done.
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Yes... but I'm lazy and would rather pay someone to do it while I make more $ at my own occupation.


Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
I don't think you realize its the same way in the Motorcycle business. Someone brings in a piece of #### bike that will cost more than its worth to get it fix and we will try and sell him a new bike instead. Rebuild his old bike during the winter and resell it in the summer.
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'Good plan.




Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
I don't buy that there isn't enough work. There are two gunsmiths in my near by area. Both are so booked that they can't even look at your gun for the next month or so.
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Being a "good gunsmith" doesn't mean you're a "good business man". Being booked solid for weeks/months can mean you're really busy or... You're just slow.

I won't name names , but there are guys who bill themselves as gunsmiths who can't perform the most basic of what we'd call gunsmithing tasks.
Cut a simple dove tail..? Uh, I don't have the right tool, so I'll try anyway and bung it up for ya.
There are also some who will certainly take your job, but then they job it out.
Now there's nothing really wrong with that, but... Listening to the customer(s) it's clear they believe it's their "gunsmith" that did such great work, well... It wasn't.
 
Aries- said:
Not around here unless min wage there is $20 an hour. When I was doing apprenticeship for gunsmith i was making $12.50 an hour. Head gunsmith is making about $18 an hour. But that is through a business.
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$12.50 and hour is the general starting wage for a new small engines, automotive, or motorcycle mechanic trying to get their foot in the door. Some will even work the first two weeks for free. People seem to think we start off at $20 and hour minimum but you don't exactly get paid much to change oil and check tires. The only mechanics that get paid more are Marine and Heavy Duty. Automotive is actually very competitive work field. Just on Vancouver Island alone, there are 96 new automotive mechanics being pumped out of a trades school each year and places like Kal Tire or Mr Lube will never pay you more than $20 and hour.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
$12.50 and hour is the general starting wage for a new small engines, automotive, or motorcycle mechanic trying to get their foot in the door. Some will even work the first two weeks for free. People seem to think we start off at $20 and hour minimum but you don't exactly get paid much to change oil and check tires. The only mechanics that get paid more are Marine and Heavy Duty. Automotive is actually very competitive work field. Just on Vancouver Island alone, there are 96 new automotive mechanics being pumped out of a trades school each year and places like Kal Tire or Mr Lube will never pay you more than $20 and hour.
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here in ontario, all those mechanic jobs are actual apprenticeship positions with pays the govt has mandated need to be paid (you may not get many hours, but the wage is being told)

the other thing you have to look at is the benefits. you wont have any medical, or dental or paid vacation days.
i have machinist training, can make one off parts easily, cut dovetails, thread barrels very very accurately, id love to start my own gunsmith business. with a lathe that would work for a gunsmith, a mill, drill press, id be well over $30,000. id never make the money back in 10 years. most times you cant charge the "hourly rate" because the customer will tell you to piss up a rope. ive had guns in the past it took me 2 or 3 hours to just figure out what the hell is wrong with the gun, then its a simple fix like a spring with to little tension causing a lifter not to lift the round up just enough to be pushed into the chamber. i cant charge a guy $90 to change a $5 spring. ive gotta bite the bullet and charge him the cost of an hour labor and eat the rest.

the general hunting public think guns are a simple fix and anything short of changing a barrel, or refinishing a stock can be done in 15 minutes. most people understand if they don't know why a car isn't working right, its going to take some time for the mechanic to figure out what is wrong.

Don't get me wrong, i absolutely LOVE being a gunsmith, there is something uniquely satisfying about fixing something like a gun, or building one and taking it to the range and it shoots one ragged hole with cheap factory ammo. or seeing the look in someones face when you bring them their grandfathers, or great grandfathers rifle they just had refinished and them thank you as the gun looks beautiful. i just know the payout in the end would not be able to keep me and my family housed for very long if i did only gunsmithing.
 
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There are a bunch of valid points from everyone. I will never make what i make at work restoring guns is one.There are a few old experienced Smiths that can look at a firearm and know what is wrong and how to fix it is another.Tradesmen are a thing of the past.The majority of machinist's are programmers now, and in my trade I seem to be getting apprentices that think 3/4" sub-floors are 12" thick when they drill a hole resulting in a whole bunch of joist repairs.
 
guntech said:
I believe the days of an apprenticing gunsmith is long gone... I would never consider trying to teach someone what I know and training them to use my tools and tooling while trying to actually get gun work done correctly and in a timely manner...and make money... they would have to pay me a considerable amount.
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There is an apprentice training under a gunsmith in ON - under Paul Grech, Grech Outdoors. He runs a shop in Mount Forest, and believe he is the authorized repair centre for Savage. So, maybe the key is to get an arrangement like that in the long term...

Another smith, Rob Wise...Wise Gunsmithing. Look him up - he's old school and can tell you a thing or two. He runs a fishing store along with gunsmith services. Another shop, focused on the long range crowd and custom builds:

CHOU BROTHERS PRECISION
Championship match barrel chambering | Custom rifle builds | Stock Bartlein Barrels
choubrothersprecision@hotmail.com | www.choubrothersprecision.com

Personally, I would investigate partnering with a gunsmith destined to retire and take over the shop if the clientele is established. Some good comments on here though...regarding modern dispensable firearms that are cheap. There's a lot to know to become a smith, including carpentry, custom stocks, finishing, coatings, bluing, machining, custom springs for oldies...but the demand is hard to know, unless you speak to people that are willing to tell you...try some of these guys, and the Chou's if they have Joe Kroetch # or PM me and I can dig it up.
 
My advice...and it's not worth much. If you really want to do it, go for it.
Keep doing what your doing and take an evenin machining class, then maybe once your comfortable working with the machines you can always attend some weekend classes down in the states that some very good builders put on.

I took machining in college and learned a ton, I enjoyed the manual machines and took the course for my own knowledge. To work as a machinist with CNC all day did not turn me on. I actually got so far ahead in the program that I was making my own tooling and bringing in barrelled actions to do small jobs on...by the end I had made my own action truing jig, action wrench, and a few other tools. Instructor was a hunter so he was ok with it.
Don't listen to anyone who says you can't teach yourself. I hate hiring others to do work for me and will try anything, results have always turned out fine. Make sure you learn on your own stuff and are extremely proficient before even thinkin about working on someone else's firearms.
Good luck!
 
S1de8urnz said:
Move to Saskatchewan. Our options on gunsmiths isn't very big. There will be a lot of business.
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You could also move to Iraq / Syria. I am pretty sure they could use a few gunsmiths since a lot of their firearms are getting wrecked by our jets along with the coalition jets. Just be careful as they need more hostages too.
 
I love these "I wanna be a gunsmith" threads.

The more successful ones I know are:

1- Old established smiths who still tell me there's no money in it compared to other trades.
2- New aspiring smiths with lots of money or a wife/girlfriend with a good paying job or lots of money.
3- Retired from other trades, jobs or business, now wants to be a smith and can do so living off a pension comfortably.
4- Still holding another full-time trade or job and doing smithing on the side or as a hobby to pay for it.

Getting a minimum wage job to support wife, kids, mortgage and bills ain't happening in the real world if this is your starting place unless you have lots of family helping you out.
The other comments on cheap throw away guns, youtube vids and internet tutorials on how to change prefit barrels on cheap guns is just another reason to not need a smith.
We also have long Canadian winters which makes the average tinkerer come alive with delusions of grandeur on being a smith.

Do I sound pessimistic? Have a laugh at my expense. ;)
 
There is a weapon tech trade in the CF. Other than this, you may get certified on courses mostly in the states for specific firearms (sig, remington for ex). You can also get a certification online ( for what it is worth). There is a one year course in Quebec to become a gunsmith.

Other than this, it is a great hobby and you may start as a hobby. I clean my hunting buddie's rifles and guns. I also shoot and adjust their rifles for free and teach kids how to shot. It is a hobby and not putting my savings at risk.

But I have bad news for your family. Follow your dream.
 
Interesting topic. I'm considering getting back into the workforce and after stumbling across this, I think maybe gunsmithing could be a good fit for me. I've been a stay at home dad for the last 7 years and with my youngest in school full time it's hard to justify staying at home. I'm a little on the old side for an apprentice being in my mid 40's, but I'm a licensed Tool and Die Maker with experience in every aspect of machining and the trouble shooting skills that come with being a tool maker. Thanks for all the useful information
 
JCMarin said:
Strange, I am in the exact situation as you! Mid 40s stay at home dad looking at third carreer.
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I thought I was the only one! I have to assume you have a sugar momma to take care of you too. It's nice to have the option do do whatever you want without the worry of making a good wage.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
That's actually a good thing to consider.

I was thinking more along the lines of custom gun building. I believe there is a custom gun builder in Alberta. If I really want to do it and no one will take an apprentice, I can easily self teach myself on my own guns.
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Call Rick at ATRS and have a talk with him. He will tell you what you need to know before anyone will hire you. Guys in the rifle building business, especially in Canada, have to work for a long time to get good reputation due to the smaller market. IMO you can either be top notch or you can repair malfunctioning jam-o-matics. There is no middle ground.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
I don't buy that there isn't enough work. There are two gunsmiths in my near by area. Both are so booked that they can't even look at your gun for the next month or so.
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It's most likely because they work other jobs and gunsmith in the Evenings and on the weekends. Going the machinest route first would be the correct approach IMO.

Most trades these days despise having apprentices around (unless it's government sponsored or they need cheap labour). The best education you can get is going to school for a core ticket and branch off from there, with a lot of donated learning time.
 
I have only seen one skinny Gunsmith, Rod Hendrikson. The reason he is so skinny is he never shuts up long enough to put food in his mouth. All the other Gunsmiths I have met are very well fed, drive nicer trucks than I do, and have much prettier women than I can land. Do what you love, or Life can become a real grind.
 
lejarretnoir said:
I love these "I wanna be a gunsmith" threads.

The more successful ones I know are:

1- Old established smiths who still tell me there's no money in it compared to other trades.
2- New aspiring smiths with lots of money or a wife/girlfriend with a good paying job or lots of money.
3- Retired from other trades, jobs or business, now wants to be a smith and can do so living off a pension comfortably.
4- Still holding another full-time trade or job and doing smithing on the side or as a hobby to pay for it.

Getting a minimum wage job to support wife, kids, mortgage and bills ain't happening in the real world if this is your starting place unless you have lots of family helping you out.
The other comments on cheap throw away guns, youtube vids and internet tutorials on how to change prefit barrels on cheap guns is just another reason to not need a smith.
We also have long Canadian winters which makes the average tinkerer come alive with delusions of grandeur on being a smith.

Do I sound pessimistic? Have a laugh at my expense. ;)
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Well stated... it really covers it... This is a must read.
 
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