Thinking of building in a new caliber.

Yes Im aware of the .416 Barrett, had actually thought of one before I got my .50BMG but it is a shortend .50 case. I was thinking something full size 50 for capacity necked down to the .338 lapua bullet. Not shortend in case length.
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Long Range Canuck, it's already been done. 338/50 Talbot (1984), 250gr. @3700fps out of a 44" barrel. The article states "severe throat erosion withing 250 rounds".

Funny thing with bullets is everytime you think you've come up with something original there's always someone who's done it before. There's nothing new under the sun.
 
I wanted to make my own custom round based off the 308Winchester

first I would re-Ream my 308chanber .0001 deeper they BI(Barkwell inproved:D )the shoulders to sharper angle I would then hope to gain .5grs more powder for about 60fps more...

I would call the the 308 "#####stick" round:rockOn:


anyone here want to buy it?


:evil: Jamie
 
Splatter, you are right on. The 6XC will not keep up with the 243 ALL things being equal. The data usually espoused is no where near equal.

The 6XC has had some very good competitive results but the shooters are also at the top of their respective game. Sort of like Ferrari and Mike S. Ferrari wouldn't have much of a chance with me at the helm...but I wouldn't likely be last.

The 6XC, 6X45L are all similar to wildcats that have been around since at least the 70's. Essentially, these are all derivatives of the 6mm-22/250 and all the ways you can modify that case.

Have a look for the 6mm International, 6XLS and Handgun silhoutte rd amoung many others.

The big diff with the XC and Lapua is that from the design, the case web area is grossly overbuilt. The goal - be able to run at very elevated pressures without causing primer pocket expansion or separation. They do work exceedingly well at very high pressures.

However, what we are seeing is that some barrels will not tolerate these elevated pressures ACCURATELY. So when riding the ragged edge, sometimes you fall off.

As I have said on many occassions, components and chamber design are so well developed that the case offers no accuracy advantage. Only the potential to reach a level of performance given available powders.

Bigger case - bigger performance.

There are now a variety of 243 "reg" and AI's which are handly exceeding the XC/Lapua performance with the new gen 115gr bullets. From the designers feedback and those who run these rifles, barrel wear is actually LESS then the XC clan.

Yes, they are burning significantly MORE powder but because the style of powder used is less erosive at LOWER peak pressures (or different pressure curves), the throats are lasting longer.

You better believe that this seems contradictory and you better believe that it met with alot of skeptism. However, there are now a variety of competitive shooters who have built similar rifles and found similar results.

So we are entering a new era where the accepted norms no longer apply IF we can find a combination of powder vs pressure vs flame temp. With new powders coming out all the time, the barrel burners of the past, may actually become gentle giants.

How about a 220 Swift that lasts as long as a 223 and doesn't copper foul no matter what you shoot? yes, that type of powder exists. We just can't get it yet.

Most of these new wildcats are built around a certain style of shooting or rifle platform. Rarely are they some 'magic bullet'.

Just depends on what you want to do.

Jerry
 
Jamie, the chamber on my 'rinco M14 is pretty close to that. It's a .308, bored 0.015" deeper, it looks like the same shoulder angle tho'.
I'll have to measure the difference in capacity.
 
Splatter said:
Jamie, the chamber on my 'rinco M14 is pretty close to that. It's a .308, bored 0.015" deeper, it looks like the same shoulder angle tho'.
I'll have to measure the difference in capacity.
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sweet:D
 
Ok so I'm still a little confused.99% of my shooting will take place from 0-800m...but I would like to have a rifle capable of good groups at 1000m ,after getting my ass handed to me in Ottawa by Keith and another fella shooting some kind of 6mm or perhaps 6.5mm.At 800m the groups were really small.It has to have readily availiable brass that is pre-made.Not into making it myself.I would like the barrels to last as well.The 6XC seems pretty interesting but I'm not sure whether it would be worth the hassle.
Thanks for all your advice so far guys!
 
LS, since you were in Ottawa, I will assume you shot a F class match.

If so, then a 6.5 Swede (or 260) w/a 8 twist 28 to 30" long will do all you want. Load 139/142gr bullets at 2900+fps and have at it.

243, and 6.5-284 are other possibilities but will not last as long.

Jerry
 
LS, since you were in Ottawa, I will assume you shot a F class match.
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I think he was referring to the NSCC in July 06.

If I was concerned about barrel life, and wanted 6.5x284 performance(or something close), I would choose a 6xc with 115dtac's, or a 6.5x55 with well stoked 139 Scenars, or a 6.5 Mystic type of cartridge. I believe the 6xc and 115's are only avaliable in the U.S. which can complicate the acquisition of said products.
 
Yes Terry is correct.I shot the sniper matches at NSCC and the boys were really smashing them in.Very impressive.Since I work in the gun industry getting stuff from the states isn't really that much of a hassle.I'm thinking the 6xc is looking pretty good.Guess I better start figuring out what action to start with.
 
LS, spend some time at 6mmBR.com and Benchrestcentral and look at some of the info on the 6XC and 243 wildcats.

Again, the 6XC is a very nice cartridge for its designed task. If you are going to feed from the mag, make sure that the action/mag you use will feed this sharp shouldered case. You might want to chat with David Tubbs just in case he is aware of a feeding problem with your combo. Maybe there is no problem but not the time to find out after spending time and money on a new rig.

I hesitate using a staggered mag as there is the off chance of a misfeed. Also, I think you may not be able to run the pressures as high as a BR type action when using a 'sloppy' field action (something to discuss with your smith or action provider).

If you want to use a 6mm, the 243 is a much better choice. Running H1000 will actually provide longer throat life in a 243 then H4350 in the 6XC (field reports from shooters, no first hand experience).

If you can ensure a steady supply of components, go for it.

I built the 6.5 Mystic because I couldn't secure a stable supply of the 6mm heavies. The 139gr Scenar is a no brainer.

Jerry
 
Savage, thanks.

but again, if I am going to use a 308 length mag, why not just go with the 243? Especially, if that mag will allow me to load from 2.90 to 3.00". Kind of a waste to have a 1/4" shorter case.

A tactical rifle is unlikely to wear a 28 to 32" tube. At 24 to 26", the added case capacity will be of benefit especially as bullet weight creep up. You also can keep that bullet IN the case so field handling doesn't knock the bullets off true.

Look, I have nothing against the 6XC or any other case. I just like maximizing performance given the shooting tasks at hand. My needs for a tacky rifle are certainly different then a bench queen.

I have no issue running up pressures in different wildcats to reach a performance goal. However, I don't like depending solely on that to reach that goal. Again, where a rifle must run, having a sticky bolt doesn't excite me. Tacky rifles tend to not be a tight as a BR action.

I also don't like the idea of needing all sorts of coatings to keep pressure in the 'sane' region. I especially don't like coatings on a field rifle where it might get wet or dirty, requiring cleaning.

If you need fouling shots after cleaning to get back to your zeros, that is not going to bode well for a 'working' rifle.

Compared to the 308/223, just about anything else is a drastic improvement ballistically, so it's all good.

Jerry
 
You may want to check out the thread about the 6xc over on the long range shooting board. There was/is an issue with 1st gen soft brass

FYI...This is also posted on National Match Forum.

If you have used first generation Tubb 6XC brass, please read and post your thoughts.

As many of you know, the first generation of Tubb 6XC head stamped brass is soft. This can cause sticky extraction in many rifles. The purpose of this post is NOT to slam the quality of this brass. After all, it was the first production run of 6XC brass and as such, there can be quality issues. David does deserve the credit for ponying up cash to make that first production run and I'm sure he would have preferred for the brass not to be so soft that it would cause sticky extraction. Again, no slam on the brass and no slam on David for taking a concept to production. Let's keep the discussion on the high road.

The purpose of this post is to collect ideas and discuss how best to use this particular lot of brass. The brass is out there on the market. If you have experience with it, please comment on the below areas, or any other areas I may have omitted. I'll answer my own questions to kick start the discussion:
Does it consistently have sticky extraction in your rifle? No. In my model 70, some cases extract normally and others extract sticky. The sticky extraction is most noticed as the bolt rotates onto the primary extraction cam.
How does this lot of brass perform in a semi auto and what type of semi auto are you using it in? I don't shoot a semi auto, but one person told me that he is happy with it in his AR-10 semi auto and has no functioning problems. Another person told me that his AR-10 rips the rims off some of these cases.
What measures have you tried to cure the stickiness? I've tried two so far.
I've heard that smearing Imperial Sizing Wax on the base of the case will eliminate the problem. Many believe that the case walls should "grip" the chamber walls during peak pressure and adding a lube to minimize this "grip" only increases thrust on bolt face. Having said that, I have tried smearing Imperial on the lower 1/3rd of the case and did not notice any extraction improvement so ceased. I don't like the idea of lube on a case that will be fired for the reason above, plus it can retain grit and that grit can find its way into the chamber.
Small base sizing the case - I modified a 30-06 full length sizing die to make a small base 6XC body die. A bit over .300" was removed from the base of the 30-06 FL die, just enough to get the 6XC case into a smaller ID area, yet not so much that the 6XC shoulder comes into contact with the 30-06 shoulder area of the die. I will try these cases this weekend and report my findings early next week.
Will the cases eventually become harder due to repeated sizing - hard enough so that there no longer is sticky extraction? I have not fired any of my 6XC brass more than once so can not comment on this yet. Perhaps it would be educational to take a single 6XC case that is known to extract sticky and use it over and over again to answer this question. Any volunteers?
Any other cures?

IF your looking for a 6mm check out the 6x47 swiss match. As you are in the industry you may have access to the RUAG brass that others don't. the 6xc is similar to the 6mm swiss but Dave Tubb's couldn't come to an arrangement with RUAG to import the brass.
 
viper7 said:
Any comments on the 6.5 Rem Mag in a Mauser action and heavy barrel for long range?
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that another great choice, even a 6.5X55 also would make a great choice, something with low recoil and low muzzle blass, this way you could shoot alday having fun and getting good at what you like to do!

Gb
 
viper7, would be way easier, cheaper and equal performance to make a 6.5-06 or 6.5Mauser/Swede improved/6.5 Mystic.

The 6.5 Rem mag = 6.5-06. Not the easiest brass to find nowadays. I really liked my 6.5-06 based off a P17 action.

Jerry
 
Anyone know where you can get 6xc brass and 115grn Dtac's other than from the States?I know Norma makes brass and possibly Lapua but I couldn't find anything on thier sites.
 
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