Thinking of buying a Hatsan PCP rifle? Something to consider....
- Thread starter leonardj
- Start date
You appear to have gotten one of the better ones.
Did you happen to take any pics of the machining of the undercut at the breech end of the barrel?
I'd be interested in seeing if there was any chatter, and if so, if it was as bad as the subject of my OP.
I would seriously be interested in knowing what the ratio of good to bad is though.
Of the three that I have been into, they all had major issues - but that is the reason that they were sent to me.
If they had been working as they should, I would never have seen them.
Did you happen to take any pics of the machining of the undercut at the breech end of the barrel?
I'd be interested in seeing if there was any chatter, and if so, if it was as bad as the subject of my OP.
I would seriously be interested in knowing what the ratio of good to bad is though.
Of the three that I have been into, they all had major issues - but that is the reason that they were sent to me.
If they had been working as they should, I would never have seen them.
My intent with this thread, at the outset, was to reveal the flaws observed in this particular gun, and then as each was addressed, to post updates to the thread. Due to the negative reaction by some individuals to the original thread, and the resulting uncertainty of the thread remaining posted to the site where it was originally posted, I never bothered to take follow up pics of the corrective actions taken, as the work was completed. At that point in time, I had no intention of posting any sort of follow-up.
However, since there has been some interest and inquiry for a follow-up, I will offer what I can, but lacking pictures of some details.
The first item addressed was the de-burring of all the edges that required it to be done - including the outer edges of the main tube, which were actually sharp enough to cut paper. All the openings in the main tube were de-burred inside and out, and the ridge that was cut by the hammer edge was polished out as best possible. The chatter at the bottoms of the o-ring grooves in the barrel was cleaned up as best possible using a square section precision needle file to knock the sharp peaks off the chatter marks. The shoulder of the undercut for the breech was cleaned up as best possible, but it turned out that this shoulder was cut out of square by the factory, so even after having cut the shoulder back a bit to better align the transfer port, the top portion of the barrel (red arrow) shows a bit of a gap, even though the bottom of the barrel is butted up solid against the breech block (yellow arrow).
The shoulder for the front sight was cleaned up and now allows the front sight to seat square against the undercut shoulder.
The barrel leade was cleaned up to remove the high points of the two ridges, and then polished up a bit. There are still some gouges in the breech leade that could not be cleaned up, but at least now the pellets feed past the lead smoothly. While cleaning up the leade, I decided that it would be prudent to also check the crown. It was a good thing that I did, because it too was very poorly done, and had a ridge interfering with the rifling. The muzzle had to be cut back by around 0.060" to be able to eliminate the ridge, and see clean rifling. A new, proper crown was then cut.
Next, the broken bolt had to be tended to. Rather than machine an entire new bolt unit up, I decided to just graft a steel probe onto the remaining section of the bolt.
The hammer was dealt with by cutting a small radius on both sides of the flanges that contact the main tube ID. The main tube, where the hammer operates, was burnished with moly paste, and a wipe of moly paste was also burnished onto the hammer flange OD as the main tube was re-assembled. The trigger assembly was then completely disassembled, cleaned, re-lubricated, and then re-assembled to the main tube. One point worthy of note here - when re-assembling the trigger unit into the rear block, a 3 mm dia. x 10 mm long stub pin will be of the utmost assistance in keeping the sear, and it's double-sided spring properly aligned, while placing the unit into the rear block, and then driving the OEM fixing pin back into place. As you drive the OEM pin into it's hole, it will drive the stub pin out the other side.
I have done nothing to address the stock inletting issue - the owner will attempt to take care of that.
While the above explanation is brief, it actually took several hours to accomplish correcting the many issues this gun suffered from.
If one's resources are limited, the time involved to correct these shortcomings would be far greater, and possibly require the services of a third party to perform any machine work involved.
The next step is to tune the gun to sub 20 FPE for FT.
However, since there has been some interest and inquiry for a follow-up, I will offer what I can, but lacking pictures of some details.
The first item addressed was the de-burring of all the edges that required it to be done - including the outer edges of the main tube, which were actually sharp enough to cut paper. All the openings in the main tube were de-burred inside and out, and the ridge that was cut by the hammer edge was polished out as best possible. The chatter at the bottoms of the o-ring grooves in the barrel was cleaned up as best possible using a square section precision needle file to knock the sharp peaks off the chatter marks. The shoulder of the undercut for the breech was cleaned up as best possible, but it turned out that this shoulder was cut out of square by the factory, so even after having cut the shoulder back a bit to better align the transfer port, the top portion of the barrel (red arrow) shows a bit of a gap, even though the bottom of the barrel is butted up solid against the breech block (yellow arrow).
The shoulder for the front sight was cleaned up and now allows the front sight to seat square against the undercut shoulder.
The barrel leade was cleaned up to remove the high points of the two ridges, and then polished up a bit. There are still some gouges in the breech leade that could not be cleaned up, but at least now the pellets feed past the lead smoothly. While cleaning up the leade, I decided that it would be prudent to also check the crown. It was a good thing that I did, because it too was very poorly done, and had a ridge interfering with the rifling. The muzzle had to be cut back by around 0.060" to be able to eliminate the ridge, and see clean rifling. A new, proper crown was then cut.
Next, the broken bolt had to be tended to. Rather than machine an entire new bolt unit up, I decided to just graft a steel probe onto the remaining section of the bolt.
The hammer was dealt with by cutting a small radius on both sides of the flanges that contact the main tube ID. The main tube, where the hammer operates, was burnished with moly paste, and a wipe of moly paste was also burnished onto the hammer flange OD as the main tube was re-assembled. The trigger assembly was then completely disassembled, cleaned, re-lubricated, and then re-assembled to the main tube. One point worthy of note here - when re-assembling the trigger unit into the rear block, a 3 mm dia. x 10 mm long stub pin will be of the utmost assistance in keeping the sear, and it's double-sided spring properly aligned, while placing the unit into the rear block, and then driving the OEM fixing pin back into place. As you drive the OEM pin into it's hole, it will drive the stub pin out the other side.
I have done nothing to address the stock inletting issue - the owner will attempt to take care of that.
While the above explanation is brief, it actually took several hours to accomplish correcting the many issues this gun suffered from.
If one's resources are limited, the time involved to correct these shortcomings would be far greater, and possibly require the services of a third party to perform any machine work involved.
The next step is to tune the gun to sub 20 FPE for FT.
Nice work. I'm afraid to mess with the seals on the barrel, for fear of not having a replacement available. Are they standard 0 rings? Would you mind sharing the size?
There's clearly two disturbing aspects to what you have reported: 1) the problem with those rifles / how they made it out of the factory in that state 2) the failure of the dealer to make good or replace them.
There's clearly two disturbing aspects to what you have reported: 1) the problem with those rifles / how they made it out of the factory in that state 2) the failure of the dealer to make good or replace them.
Much appreciated. I don't want to peel them off and look underneath without having replacements.
The final step was to tune the gun to sub 20 FPE, and the following are the specs as it stands now.
The gun will be able to shoot half of a Field Target match, with a five shot buffer (ie - 35 shots) on a fill.
Shots 01 through 10: average 879 FPS / 17.7 FPE.
Shots 11 through 20 average 884 FPS / 17.9 FPE.
Shots 21 through 30 average 887 FPS / 17.9 FPE.
Shots 31 through 35 average 878 FPS / 17.7 FPE.
Standard deviation of less than 5 FPS over the first 30 shots.
Not bad for an non-regulated rifle.
The gun will be able to shoot half of a Field Target match, with a five shot buffer (ie - 35 shots) on a fill.
Shots 01 through 10: average 879 FPS / 17.7 FPE.
Shots 11 through 20 average 884 FPS / 17.9 FPE.
Shots 21 through 30 average 887 FPS / 17.9 FPE.
Shots 31 through 35 average 878 FPS / 17.7 FPE.
Standard deviation of less than 5 FPS over the first 30 shots.
Not bad for an non-regulated rifle.
The gun definitely has potential in the accuracy department.
Since the gun was never tested for groups before it was torn down, due to the breaking bolts, I do not have a "before" grouping to compare to these groups.
I suspect that the grouping is infinitely better now than it could possibly have been with the ridges in the rifling that were machined out during the re-crowning operation noted above.
Using the OEM open sights, a few shots were taken to get the gun roughly sighted. I don't get along well with open (tangent) sights anymore, but made the best of it for the purpose of these groups.
Each group is ten shots, at ten meters, all done on a single fill. The front of the gun was rested on my tripod rest, while the rear of the gun was rested against my shoulder. I was seated, and resting both elbows on my knees - typical of my usual FT shooting position.
The first target resulted in a ten shot group of only 0.375" CTC. Not too shabby.
After a slight adjustment to the sights, the second ten shots netted a group of 0.460" CTC.
Another slight adjustment to the sights, and the third group of ten shots was taken, resulting in a 0.435" CTC group.
I have no doubt that a decent scope will narrow these groups down significantly.
Since the gun was never tested for groups before it was torn down, due to the breaking bolts, I do not have a "before" grouping to compare to these groups.
I suspect that the grouping is infinitely better now than it could possibly have been with the ridges in the rifling that were machined out during the re-crowning operation noted above.
Using the OEM open sights, a few shots were taken to get the gun roughly sighted. I don't get along well with open (tangent) sights anymore, but made the best of it for the purpose of these groups.
Each group is ten shots, at ten meters, all done on a single fill. The front of the gun was rested on my tripod rest, while the rear of the gun was rested against my shoulder. I was seated, and resting both elbows on my knees - typical of my usual FT shooting position.
The first target resulted in a ten shot group of only 0.375" CTC. Not too shabby.
After a slight adjustment to the sights, the second ten shots netted a group of 0.460" CTC.
Another slight adjustment to the sights, and the third group of ten shots was taken, resulting in a 0.435" CTC group.
I have no doubt that a decent scope will narrow these groups down significantly.
superd222
CGN frequent flyer
I have had tremendous results with Hatsan AT44-10 and haven't seen any of this either.
With such a long laundry list of issues, I find it hard to believe this was all from one gun!
With such a long laundry list of issues, I find it hard to believe this was all from one gun!
For what its worth, no such problems on mine. I've done a complete tear down an inspection.
OP have you spoken to Hatsan about this? What was the reply?
Obviously it was one of the last ones to come off the line before tooling was changed. The workmanship is unacceptable, and if all their rifles were like that they'd be out of business.
Obviously it was one of the last ones to come off the line before tooling was changed. The workmanship is unacceptable, and if all their rifles were like that they'd be out of business.
No, I have not spoken to Hatsan about the issues that I have seen.
They are well aware of the issues to be found in some of their products - a few internet searches will confirm that.
Sadly, they will continue to market poor quality as long as there are people willing to accept that they may have to spend several hours "fixing" their new, bargain priced gun, before shooting it.
