- Location
- Calgary, AB
Don't have any "precision rifles" at the moment and was wondering what a decent rifle would be to get started with?
Thinking of getting into F-class
- Thread starter 444shooter
- Start date
I warn you, F-Class is worse than Crack and just as expensive 
Welcome aboard! F-Class is a terrific, fun, social and challenging long distance shooting sport. I am a hopeless addict and I shoot every match I can get to. You guys in Alberta have a terrific facility in the Homestead Range and you host some terrific F-Class/TR combined shoots.
Just to set the record striaght, there are two "classes" of F-Class that shoot together in the same matches at the same tagets and using the same scoring:
F-TR (also known as F-Restricted) which is any 223 OR 308 to a maximum weight of 18.5 pounds AND using only a bipod and rear bag or a sling -no benchrest style rests.
F-Open is basically any caliber allowed at that range up to 338, and weighing a maximum of 22 pounds. Any front rest or bipod and a rear bag. Weights include everything attached to - and that recoils with the rifle.
Your choice of classes will be guided by your budget and your ability to re-load. Many of the popular F-Open calibers like 6BR are almost impossible to find in factory ammo, and when you do they are very expensive indeed. This makes the FTR category a great place to look first.
As to rifles.
I'll be blunt: F-Class rules have tightened up the size of the target and to be competitive, you need a gun capable of under 0.4 MOA groups or better. This eliminates most factory rifles. If you just wish to have fun, shoot anything you want! If you want to grow and get better, you can only truly learn to be better from a very accurate rifle. If your gun is capable of only 1MOA, you;ll never know whether the shot was a result of your calculations or the gun's envelope of accuracy.
In FTR, the only real off-the-shelf choices are the Savage FTR factiry rifle in .308 and the Savage Palma rifle. Both were designed so that you could slap on a scope, load ammo and shoot your first match. Most of these are retty good and will get you on the board.
In F-Open, the only true factory choices are the Savage F-Class rifle is 6mmBR and 6.5X284.
The reality is that the majority of factory rifles - except for these Savage offerings - are simply unreliable in guaranteeing that sort of accuracy. Quite frankly very few will and NO BRAND IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER. More money does NOT mean more accuracy. So-called "tactical Rifles" are just factory rifles with go-fasters. Like a Honda Civic with a spoiler and low profile tires.
My suggestion to you would be to hook up with one of the many APRA F-Class matches that start this Spring and come out to see what they are all about. You will see for yourself what people are using in terms of equipment (And you will learn why so much of what you read here from armchair experts that don't even shoot F-Class is plain horse-$hit.) and in terms of calibers.
Chances are, if you are curous, there are a few like "Inspector" who may even hook you up with a rifle - pr someone with an F-Class rifle - to let you have a go.
I have said before and I will say again that I would be most wary of making consumer purchases based on faceless nameless contributions on internet forums that have no investment in your choices.
You might actually find that a good used rifle will provide you most of what you need for the same or less than a new Savage. You may find someone with just such a rifle at one of the shoots.
I can give you all sorts of advice as to how to build a sub quarter minute rifle and why one action is better than another, but that is irrelevant to you at this stage.
Ian Hames
F-Class director BCRA
Western Regional F-Class Coordinator DCRA
Welcome aboard! F-Class is a terrific, fun, social and challenging long distance shooting sport. I am a hopeless addict and I shoot every match I can get to. You guys in Alberta have a terrific facility in the Homestead Range and you host some terrific F-Class/TR combined shoots.
Just to set the record striaght, there are two "classes" of F-Class that shoot together in the same matches at the same tagets and using the same scoring:
F-TR (also known as F-Restricted) which is any 223 OR 308 to a maximum weight of 18.5 pounds AND using only a bipod and rear bag or a sling -no benchrest style rests.
F-Open is basically any caliber allowed at that range up to 338, and weighing a maximum of 22 pounds. Any front rest or bipod and a rear bag. Weights include everything attached to - and that recoils with the rifle.
Your choice of classes will be guided by your budget and your ability to re-load. Many of the popular F-Open calibers like 6BR are almost impossible to find in factory ammo, and when you do they are very expensive indeed. This makes the FTR category a great place to look first.
As to rifles.
I'll be blunt: F-Class rules have tightened up the size of the target and to be competitive, you need a gun capable of under 0.4 MOA groups or better. This eliminates most factory rifles. If you just wish to have fun, shoot anything you want! If you want to grow and get better, you can only truly learn to be better from a very accurate rifle. If your gun is capable of only 1MOA, you;ll never know whether the shot was a result of your calculations or the gun's envelope of accuracy.
In FTR, the only real off-the-shelf choices are the Savage FTR factiry rifle in .308 and the Savage Palma rifle. Both were designed so that you could slap on a scope, load ammo and shoot your first match. Most of these are retty good and will get you on the board.
In F-Open, the only true factory choices are the Savage F-Class rifle is 6mmBR and 6.5X284.
The reality is that the majority of factory rifles - except for these Savage offerings - are simply unreliable in guaranteeing that sort of accuracy. Quite frankly very few will and NO BRAND IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER. More money does NOT mean more accuracy. So-called "tactical Rifles" are just factory rifles with go-fasters. Like a Honda Civic with a spoiler and low profile tires.
My suggestion to you would be to hook up with one of the many APRA F-Class matches that start this Spring and come out to see what they are all about. You will see for yourself what people are using in terms of equipment (And you will learn why so much of what you read here from armchair experts that don't even shoot F-Class is plain horse-$hit.) and in terms of calibers.
Chances are, if you are curous, there are a few like "Inspector" who may even hook you up with a rifle - pr someone with an F-Class rifle - to let you have a go.
I have said before and I will say again that I would be most wary of making consumer purchases based on faceless nameless contributions on internet forums that have no investment in your choices.
You might actually find that a good used rifle will provide you most of what you need for the same or less than a new Savage. You may find someone with just such a rifle at one of the shoots.
I can give you all sorts of advice as to how to build a sub quarter minute rifle and why one action is better than another, but that is irrelevant to you at this stage.
Ian Hames
F-Class director BCRA
Western Regional F-Class Coordinator DCRA
I started shooting F class in 2001, I put a cheap scope on my 308 VSSF. I shot that way for 4 years and had a great time. No need to break the bank to start off.
Shoot lots and enjoy.
9 years later and I have broken the bank (thanks to PGWSteve)but I would not do it any different if I could.
Shoot lots and enjoy.
9 years later and I have broken the bank (thanks to PGWSteve
)but I would not do it any different if I could.
f-class savage 308
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Many thanks for the info guys. I will watch the EE and see if I can snag a deal
It looks like 308 would be the best caliber to start with compared to a 223?
It looks like 308 would be the best caliber to start with compared to a 223?
- Location
- Coquitlam, BC
Another one bites the dust
Don't forget there's also a "Hunter class" in some competition. It limits the competitors to using only factory rifles with no modifications. A possible fun/cheap way to get your feet wet.
Don't forget there's also a "Hunter class" in some competition. It limits the competitors to using only factory rifles with no modifications. A possible fun/cheap way to get your feet wet.
Many thanks for the info guys. I will watch the EE and see if I can snag a deal
It looks like 308 would be the best caliber to start with compared to a 223?
A fast twist .223 shooting 80 gr bullets will keep up with a .308 shooting 155 gr bullets. However the .223 has very little recoil and is almost half price to load for.
Of course it is....don't waste your time with a 223 Rem....ask Ian if you don't believe me....I've been tasked with that job....
- Location
- Calgary, AB
As another Ian, I cannot argue with Ian
This might open a can of worms now - the 308 vs the 223 crowd.
This might open a can of worms now - the 308 vs the 223 crowd.
Of course it is....don't waste your time with a 223 Rem....ask Ian if you don't believe me....I've been tasked with that job....
Any Scotsman that wears a leopard-skin banana hammock under a kilt slit up the thigh, and a set of Viking Horns when he gets drunk is a man struggling desperately with his own ###ual identity.
I have often said that if he used 308 bullets in his 308 instead of 223 bullets in his 308, he'd do better, but he seems to hold his own.
As to the serious answer, they both behave the same, so it is a question of what you want, can afford, and can tolerate in terms of recoil. One is not "better" than the other.
I reload so it don't matter to me but for some I will pose the question.
Between the 223, 308 which has the better factory ammo options? Can you buy high BC and heavy match 223 ammo that will compete against say Federal Match 308 ammo?
Between the 223, 308 which has the better factory ammo options? Can you buy high BC and heavy match 223 ammo that will compete against say Federal Match 308 ammo?
I've never used 223 factory ammo in anything but a Ruger Mini-14 and even the best handloads are doing well if they hit in the same time zone with those $hitty rifles. I think the options for factory match have to favour the 308, but that is an impression, not fact.
"deer e goes again, flam'in me kilt" ...ah Ian, if you only knew lad.....how many times do I need to tell yah.....I use 223 bullets in my 308 so as not to wear my barrell.....
All kidding aside, I would image there are more options available for purchasing 308 match ammo if you do not reload.
All kidding aside, I would image there are more options available for purchasing 308 match ammo if you do not reload.
Laff, if you can afford Factory ammo to shoot F-class your probably doing better than us, laff.
We, HAVE to reload to afford it with the amount we shoot.
Savage in 6 BR or 6.5 -284 with a Bushnell 6-24x50 Tactical if your on a budget, decent pieces both of them and upgrade as you like later on.
M.
We, HAVE to reload to afford it with the amount we shoot.
Savage in 6 BR or 6.5 -284 with a Bushnell 6-24x50 Tactical if your on a budget, decent pieces both of them and upgrade as you like later on.
M.
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
I shot F-class for the first time last summer. Used a custom Rem700P. Was hitting the targets and scoring okay for my first season. Get a decent rifle, practice a bit and customize as you see fit. Don't break the bank off the start, plenty of time later to optimize the rifle and reloads to what you want.
