This is how we roll, west coast style, support group in review

45ACPKING

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Well... another successfull West Coast M14 support group has come to a close. Just stopped at my bro's place on the way home from droppin Laz at the ferry. Today was great, wanna thank you guys for showin up, bringin goodies.... and such. Was very cool to hang out with ya all. Lots of information was covered today. It's cool to see guys from the first support group meeting, showin up and helping the other guys, that's what it's all about. Want to also thank Lazerus for coming out and being so generous with his knowledge. That said.... people need to bear in mind... as those from the meetings know... Laz is retired from gunsmithing.... so don't p.m. the poor guy to get work done..... come to the meetings :D

I have some pics of "how we roll" out here out west :D , and will post them the second i get home.... in a half hour or so...... the suspense will be worth it :cool: :cool: and will also post some interesting discoveries with found with some of the new norc 2007 date stamped rifles we inspected today....... stay tuned ;)

and THANX GUYS... I had a great time today, next meeting will be tentatively......Saturday march 8 is lookin good on my schedule... regulars... please contact me if this conflicts with your schedules.
 
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an assortment of a few of the toys....... the shotgun, a dominion arms 870 from canadaammo, was customized and brought by MP5K for us to examine... thanx man
the rest is a fine collection of fellow CGN'ers m14s rifles
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and this is my baby :D
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2007 date stamped rifles we examined exhibited better headspace than we have seen on the average norc..... between 4 and 9 thou over the guage.... I'll let the guys post up about thier particular rifles headspace.
generally these were pretty good, most had tight oprod guides, decent headspace and most had good barrel indexing. Overall finish was good to excellent..... the more of these I see..... i am realizing.... the chinese are doing something better than they were in previous runs.
 
OK,
what did we learn from our last M-14 fest ...

FIRST of all,
Thomas makes a GREAT BAMBI BURGER.
I had two, with all the fixin's, and they were fantastic.

SECOND,
as you can see from the table, there was a very diverse group of 14 luvvers in attendance. Most of the 14s were bone stock, some brand new unfired, and a fair representative of the NEW MARSTAR batch is shown in the middle of the table, where the two knife blades meet. This time, everyone had at least one of the 14s to bring for show and tell, ranging from FULL HOUSE Target in a JAE stock, with a 10X Bushnell 3200, down to a shorty in a folder. Quite a bit of difference in the handling between these two extremes, eh what??

After handling the shorties,in the folding stock a nice match wood stock and a GI Glass stock, it seems quite a few of the 14 guys share my enthusiasm for the better ergonomics and balance of the "M-14 Bush Rifle / Carbine?". So quite a few chop saws may find their way out of the basement in the near future. The DIY instructions for this adventure are hidden in the FOLDING STOCK sticky in the Battle Rifle forum. Good luck, and remember, you can always make a long barrel just a wee a bit shorter, but you can't make a short barrel longer ... and 18 1/2" is absolutely positively the minimum. The police officer who checks this will probably have no sense of humor at all, so don't mess up you life over an 1/8" of an inch. Cut long, and work your way back a bit at a time, and be careful not to flake the chrome when crowning and end up ILLEGAL!!!

THIRD,
the NEW batch of NORC 14s from MARSTAR look VERY VERRRRRRY nice. Notice that the one in the pic above has a slightly different color/texture to the metal finish. lParkerising can vary considerably in color/texture, the new batch have a very attractive fine GREY finish, which looks almost like Grey Teflon. Nice fit and finish to the metal for sure. Most of them also had very decent stocks, of fairly hard wood, with some nice color. Finish quality was significantly above most of the older batch.

FOURTH,
as Thomas mentioned in his initial post, the headspace on all of these was significantly tighter than the last time we checked the older batch of 14s. Using the proper US GI 7.62 NATO GO gauge [ which by the way now lives with Thomas, so he won't have to borrow it from me any more ] Headspace ranged from .004" to .009" over 7.62 NATO GO. This is equivalent to what you would find in a batch of used genuine US GI M-14 rifles, so is about as good as you will get. The last batch we checked ranged from .009" to .014", which is more than I am comfortable with personally fo .308. But still, several thousand of these rifles are out there with similar or greater headspace, and no reports of any KABOOMS with FACTORY AMMO. Once again, if your rifle headspaces long, then stick to 7.62 NATO BALL, and definitely do NOT reload fired .308 brass.

FIFTH,
bolt fit was significantly better ... no glaringly obvious problems with lug engagement, although several could benefit from a wee bit of lapping [ or just shoot the darn things ]. This time we checked firing pin protrusion, and bolt to reciver timing, which is not very well understood by most 14 shooter up here in Canada. This is NOT rocket science, but neither is it intuitive. Every rifle had good safe bolt/firing pin/receiver timing, however one BRAND NEW receiver did show signs of a bit of polishing on the receiver camming surface.

And one bolt ... OOOPS, ME BAD [;{( ... had a bit of brass stuck in the firing pin hole. This is not that uncommon with these rifles, especially if the firing pin hole is worn, or the pin tip is chipped. PAY ATTENTION HERE ... this is definitely not a good thing [ aka "INSTANT DEATH or SLAMFIRE" ].

Because the firing pin is the inertial design, with NO RETACTING SPRING, it is a very good idea to check that firing pin hole from time to time, to see if any crud [ especially primer shavings ] is building up in there. While the firing pin/receiver camming action SHOULD still retract the firing pin even with a bit of garbage clogging the system, this is not something you want to test for your self. A clean rifle is a happy rifle ... and a lot safer too.

Which leads to the scary question ... how do you take that bolt apart??? While I have done it so many times, I could probably do it blindfolded, there are enough horror stories out there about M-14 bolt dissambly [ that ejector spring launches the ejector with enough power to pierce your eyeball and embed itself in your brain ...yadayadyada ] that it might pay to invest in one of the bolt disassembly tools. The tool makes it simple to disaasemble the inside gubbins, and keep the firing pin channel clean.

SIXTH,
all rifles passed the trigger mechanism safety test [ with trigger back, let op rod slam forward to see if hammer follows ]. Most had decent, if not good trigger weight, with the usual creep and grittiness. ONE hammer did have one of the hooks seriously deformed, so that only one side of the hammer was actually engaging the sear for the final letoff. This one would benefit from a GI Hammer swap for sure.

SEVENTH,
MOST of the rifles were indexed properly, or at least "close enough for Govt work". Thomas helped to reindex one BRAND NEW NORC that was way out. By the way, this was also the same one that had the polished receiver firing pin camming surfaces, and the hammer with the bad hook. I guess even the Chinese have Mondays ...

EIGHTH,
MOST of the 14s had nice tight gas assemblies. Only one had rotational slop, which was easily fixed by proper application of a spring actuated center punch to peen a bit at the back of the splines on the barrel. Several had LOTS of longditudinal slop, and even though there was a shim kit available, we made do by peening the barrel at the lug behind the hand guard.

OR, in a couple of cases,
we removed the WELDED flashiders [ and wasn't THAT fun eh? ] and flipped the gas ring over. In case you didn't know this, the gas ring will ususally index differently depending which side you put to the inside. In both these cases, we went from VERRRY sloppy, to perfectly tight, with no more than flipping the gas ring.

PS: in case you still haven't figured it out, I personally think gas shims are a "complicated solution to a non-existant problem" ... but hey, you can spend your money on whatever you want. If you do have shims available, and you dont want to mess up your welded on flashider by grinding out the spot welds, be advised that you CAN put the shims in without removing the flashider. Just cut the shims into a "C" instead of an "O".

After reindexing the gas assembly, it is always a good idea to check for gas hole alignment by sticking a pin [ drill bit or allen wrenck ] into the gas hole in the barrel and seeing how it aligns with the gas bleed hole in the gas cylinder. Center is nice. Oh yeah, you want to have the piston out when you are doing this check.

well that is about it.

I will posting some updates to the M-14 inspection FAQS, and also a NEW bit of info about the 14. Hopefully enough Canucks will learn enough about this fine old firearm, to keep them alive and shooting forever.

TTFN
LAZ 1
[;{)
 
hey, just wanted to say thanx a lot for having us all over, it was an awesome learning event, much thanx to laz for taking time out to come over from the island to share his vast knowledge with us amateurs, he has more knowledge about these rifles than most of us will ever have, I managed to get mine set up A1 now, everything checked & tweeked & had a great time doing it! Snacks,tinkering & socializing with fellow CGNers, The only way it gets better is to get a case of 7.62 & all head to the range,YEEHA! Just u wait till that ammo comes in.............c u all next time :sniper:
 
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