Thompson 1928 Question (I Need Some Help)

albayo

albayo

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I have two questions about 1928 Thompson SMG. I was asked by the CPFO to verify a 1928 Thompson for a gentleman. I am one of the few verifiers in this area and the only one that has an interest in prohib military firearms.

These are the questions I have to answer for the CPFO and Ottawa.

  1. Did they manufacture any 1928s in Semi-Auto only?
  2. How do you block a 50 round drum to 5 rounds?

I have looked in my FRT files and all the 1928s are either full-auto or converted-auto. I have looked in my library and I can't find anything that says the 1928 was built in semi-auto only. I have a 1927 and it is semi-auto only, and I have that as an example. The gentleman says that this 1928 is 12-5.
The next question is about blocking the 50 round drum to 5 rounds. How do you do it?
 
1928 Thompson

albayo said:
I have two questions about 1928 Thompson SMG. I was asked by the CPFO to verify a 1928 Thompson for a gentleman. I am one of the few verifiers in this area and the only one that has an interest in prohib military firearms.

These are the questions I have to answer for the CPFO and Ottawa.

  1. Did they manufacture any 1928s in Semi-Auto only?
  2. How do you block a 50 round drum to 5 rounds?

I have looked in my FRT files and all the 1928s are either full-auto or converted-auto. I have looked in my library and I can't find anything that says the 1928 was built in semi-auto only. I have a 1927 and it is semi-auto only, and I have that as an example. The gentleman says that this 1928 is 12-5.
The next question is about blocking the 50 round drum to 5 rounds. How do you do it?
Click to expand...

Who is the maker? If it is a Savage 1928, then it is a military model and is full and semi auto only. If it has a selector switch that will go into the auto mode, it is full auto. It might be converted auto if the selector switch has been modified or pinned. Auto-Ordinance made the 1927 Thompson is semi-auto, but the 1928 was both semi and full.

One way to modify the 50 round drum would be to make a L shaped metal strap that could be fastened to catch one of the fingers. You could load 5 rounds, then position the strap so it is rivited to the outside metal band on the drum on one of the fingers that is back from the first one.

A pin across the drum would not work, because you have to take the cover off to load it. Feeding might be a problem, because you have to wind the drum to 9 or 11 clicks.
.
 
albayo said:
I have two questions about 1928 Thompson SMG. I was asked by the CPFO to verify a 1928 Thompson for a gentleman. I am one of the few verifiers in this area and the only one that has an interest in prohib military firearms.

These are the questions I have to answer for the CPFO and Ottawa.

  1. Did they manufacture any 1928s in Semi-Auto only?
  2. How do you block a 50 round drum to 5 rounds?

I have looked in my FRT files and all the 1928s are either full-auto or converted-auto. I have looked in my library and I can't find anything that says the 1928 was built in semi-auto only. I have a 1927 and it is semi-auto only, and I have that as an example. The gentleman says that this 1928 is 12-5.
The next question is about blocking the 50 round drum to 5 rounds. How do you do it?
Click to expand...

The Thompsons I've seen that were 12(2) have a selector, semi and full. If there isn't one...
 
Thompson

Hi , have just checked my 1928, and my reference books. I can find no mention of there ever being a 1928 in semi only. The drum mag is worth too much to mess with. Maybe your customer should consider selling it and getting a 20 rd. stick mag pinned.
 
You better have a good look at the gun. Without actual inspection, who knows?
Original semi auto Thompsons were '27s.
All original ones would be 12(2) or 12(3).
If, in fact, it is 12(5) it would be a commercial version.
 
The original 15,000 Thompson Submachine gun were produced by Colt on contract by Auto Ordnance Corporation. The model designations at that time were: 1921, & 1921AC.

A few Colt TSMGs were modified by Colt to fire semi-automatic only and re-stamped to Model 1927. They were originally and therefore simply modified, 1921 guns. Extremely rare and pricey in today's market. Open bolt guns with a modified selector/rocker.

Some of the original Colt guns were re-stamped, as a result of a request by the US Navy, to 1928. It had a replacement or modified actuator installed in order to slow the cyclic rate, but remained select fire.

All Colt made TSMGs are highly collectible.

Getting near WW2, Auto Ord Corp contracted Savage, and Bridgeport (Remington), to fill the war needs. All of these guns were designated 1928, 1928AC, or 1928A1 until the "new" M1/M1A1 series was developed.

Thompson SMG production ceased until approx 1970 when Auto Ord was re-structured by George Numrich. He/they produced what is referred to as the commercial 1928 and M1 versions of the Thompson. They were select fire until 1986 when the US law prohibited further production of FA guns for the civilian market. Their quality was painfully inferior to the war time production and not even in the same ball park as the Colt guns.

After 1986, a semi auto 16 inch barreled version was produced of both models by Numrich for a few years until they were no longer a viable/successful model. Also designated 1927 or M1.

One of the ways to Liberalize a drum is to drill the body in the back and install a rivet in the track to allow only 5 rounds to be moved by the rotor. Simple and clean.

This is not the 100% complete Thompson SMG story, as there are many books on the subject, but I hope it helps.

You are correct in that there is no such thing as a manufactured 1928 semi auto only, either military or commercial.
 
koldt said:
After 1986, a semi auto 16 inch barreled version was produced of both models by Numrich for a few years until they were no longer a viable/successful model. Also designated 1927 or M1.
Click to expand...

That's the one in the Gunrunner years ago! Now they are 12.5.
 
cantom said:
The Auto Ordnance semi's you mention were closed bolt. The original Thompsons were open bolt.
Click to expand...

Open and Closed Bolt, for those that don't know:

Coyote Ugly said:
Open and Closed Bolt Definition:

Closed bolt operation for the MP44

The bolt is locked in the breech with a round chambered.

For example, when the trigger is pulled it releases the "hammer" which strikes the "free floating" firing pin and fires the bullet. The bolt then gets blown back by gas and then pushed forward again by the main spring, along its way it will strip another round from the magazine and chambers it.

If the selector is set to semi-auto, the trigger would need to be released and then pressed again to fire another round.

If the selector is set to full-auto then the process would repeat itself until the trigger is released.


The open bolt works differently.

The bolt would be cocked in the rear position and held in place by a sear. The sear is controlled by the trigger. If the trigger is pulled the sear drops and vice-versa. The bolt on an open bolt weapon is milled in such a way that it has a sear catch on it. It also has a fixed firing pin that does not move. Since the firing pin is "fixed" it is sometimes machined right into the face of the bolt and if it wears the entire bolt would need to be replaced. They are not all like that but some are i.e. a STEN bolt and I believe an MP40.

The heavy open bolt design needs to strip a round from the magazine, then chamber the round, and then fire it all in one motion. For this reason an open bolt weapon is not very accurate in the semi-auto mode. The advantage to the open bolt besides simplicity, is the fact that it wont "cook" a round off since there is no round in the chamber when not being fired. A closed bolt system can have a round chambered and if hot enough it could cook a round off.
Click to expand...
 
The Numrich made 1928s were also referred to as "West Hurley" guns as the address stamp on the gun was WH, NY.
Even those manufactured full auto guns, prior to 1986, were open bolt.

The 16" guns had the closed bolt. None functioned with both an open and closed bolt system. It was either open/select fire, or closed bolt/semi auto only.
 
koldt said:
The Numrich made 1928s were also referred to as "West Hurley" guns as the address stamp on the gun was WH, NY.
Even those manufactured full auto guns, prior to 1986, were open bolt.

The 16" guns had the closed bolt. None functioned with both an open and closed bolt system. It was either open/select fire, or closed bolt/semi auto only.
Click to expand...

I had a non restricted West Hurley semi only Thompson. I think the barrel was 19".
What a piece of junk!
 
cantom said:
I had a non restricted West Hurley semi only Thompson. I think the barrel was 19".
What a piece of junk!
Click to expand...

It must have been re-barreled/Canadianized, as Numrich didn't manufacture any barrel longer than the 16.1". Yup, the quality wasn't quite up to the Colt guns. I've played with a few Colt 1921s that hadn't been re-finished. Basically a Python blue on a much larger surface.

In the not too distant past in the US, good Colt guns were bringing $30K and up. Some guns with documented provenance much more. With the hard times down there in the last year or so, the market has cooled a bit.

If you ever get a chance to go to the RCMP museum at Depot, they have a gorgeous 1921AC. Looks almost unfired.. I'd hate/like to know the value at auction for one of the last 2 MP Colt Thompsons. Especially one that is in as good of shape as the one there, with the Colt C drum. Huge money.
 
The original colt model 1927 semi-auto was a converted model 1921. It was done by changing trigger group parts to safe and semi-only. The gun could be changed to full auto by re-using using the original parts.
 
1928 Thompson

I went to Verify the Thompson and it is a FA 1928. Nice gun fully functions in full-auto. I had to tell the CPFO it was an FA and the CPFO wanted to know if anyone I knew wanted to purchase it so as to get the guy his money back. The NB CPFO isn't interested in destroying a piece of history which I think is great.

Now if anyone wants to purchase a FA Model 1928 Thompson manufactured by Auto-Ordinance let me know.
I will have more details for anyone in a 12-2 class at a later point in time. It can only be sold as a FA or deactivated as far as I know.

Thanks
Al
 
koldt said:
It must have been re-barreled/Canadianized, as Numrich didn't manufacture any barrel longer than the 16.1". Yup, the quality wasn't quite up to the Colt guns. I've played with a few Colt 1921s that hadn't been re-finished. Basically a Python blue on a much larger surface.
Click to expand...

This was a fair while ago, like around 1990. I'm thinking it had a finned barrel...which probably means factory? Unfortunately, this was long before the days of digital cameras, and I have zero pics.
It looked like this, but the bbl was 19" long and it was non restricted.

http://firearmdeals.com/Dons/Thompson1928a.jpg
 
cantom said:
This was a fair while ago, like around 1990. I'm thinking it had a finned barrel...which probably means factory? Unfortunately, this was long before the days of digital cameras, and I have zero pics.
It looked like this, but the bbl was 19" long and it was non restricted.

http://firearmdeals.com/Dons/Thompson1928a.jpg
Click to expand...

That is a photo of a West Hurley gun. Not the greatest of fit 'n finish. And functioned with a closed bolt.

Yes, in the bad ole days we could get stuff de-restricted easier, and of course none of the OIC 12 stupidity to worry about.

Never thought I would look back at 1980's Canadian gun law as "reasonable":rolleyes: But if you just keep in mind the law isn't trying to be reasonable, the law is trying to remove, and then it all makes sense.
 
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