Thoughts on a balance beam scale.

SuperCub

SuperCub

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Been having discussion this week with another member this week about precision loading and the question about the balance beam scale came up. It got me thinking about weight accuracy vs weight consistency.

I am of the thought that one could weigh small common household items like coins etc and if your scale gives the same weight over and over that this consistency is more important than accuracy.

Thoughts and/or experiences? :)
 
My thoughts tend to gravitate towards the electronic side of these things. With RCBS's chargemaster you can trickle if you need to. Throw back the charge if the trickle is "unlucky" enough to over fill. Yes, sometimes that bad luck in the trickle gets annoying, but a balance beam would be too much for this old duffer. Besides, the chargemaster seems very accurate and the calibration takes any guess work out of a proper zero every time. And that's where the consistency and accuracy for me is.

My thoughts.
 
I do ZERO the scale every use. Underweight powder charge is thrown from an old Lee powder thrower and is trickled up to final weight. It is slow, but I am not a volume shooter.
 
While I have a couple of electronic scales and a chargemaster combo [soon will be 2 of these] I still check on my very accurate balance beam scale [RCBS 304]

I have occasionally caught a charge that the electronic was off by .1 grain [inconsequential in a hunting load, BTW], even though it read the correct weight.

I am not super anal about charge weights unless I am prepping loads for a long range competition. Even my most accurate hunting rifles do not show
any group size difference at +- .1 grains from the target weight, even at 400 yards. Now a smaller varmint offering may show a drop difference, but not
any case holding 35 or more grains of powder. Dave.
 
What I like about electronic scales, is that I can verify that the zero and calibration are correct by watching the reading as I remove the pan to pour each powder charge.
 
I see zero advantage to electronic scales or charge masters I have a beam scale and a check weight.
For stick powders:
I zero my scale each time set it for the desired weight , adjust my Hornady powder measure to throw .5 grain less, use my Dandy power trickler to come up to charge level.
Yesterday I loaded 50 338 win. 64 grs. of IMR4895, visually checked the cartridge powder level in the loading block, seated and crimped using a Lee factory crimp die in just under 1/2 an hour. I was done before the electronics even warmed up.
For ball powder or flake
Load from the measure, visually check the cartridge powder level, seat bullet I check the weight on my beam scale every ten rounds
 
I know this may sound sacrilegious, but with fine extrudeds and sphericals, I set up my powder measure, check two or three loads on my scale, and then drop
the charge directly from the powder measure. I check about every 10th round on the scale for consistency. Also check before seating bullets for proper level.
It makes loading a quantity of hunting ammo go quickly.
The Chargemasters take care of the coarser powders. Dave.
 
I use an old RCBS beam scale (mfgd. by Ohaus) zero it before every use, set the powder measure up a little light and trickle every load. Also have a set of test weights.
Very accurate, very consistent and very repeatable. Maybe a little slower, but what the he**s the rush ?
Tried an electronic scale/measure & hated it. Went back to what I've been doing for the past 40+ years.
 
SuperCub said:
I do ZERO the scale every use. Underweight powder charge is thrown from an old Lee powder thrower and is trickled up to final weight. It is slow, but I am not a volume shooter.
Click to expand...

This is what I do too.

With the scale I use 5-0-5 I hope for weight consistency because even if my scale is out not matter what weight, as long as I keep using THAT scale Im happy. :)
 
titch-- said:
This is what I do too.

With the scale I use 5-0-5 I hope for weight consistency because even if my scale is out not matter what weight, as long as I keep using THAT scale Im happy. :)
Click to expand...

I played with my old scale last night. Weighed up six small everyday items (coins, bullets, etc) ranging from 27gr up to 500gr. and recorded those weights.

Re-zeroed the scale and re-weighed all items several times. They all came in bang on, so the weight consistency is there.

I will keep those items and weights and try this again down the road.
 
SuperCub said:
I played with my old scale last night. Weighed up six small everyday items (coins, bullets, etc) ranging from 27gr up to 500gr. and recorded those weights.

Re-zeroed the scale and re-weighed all items several times. They all came in bang on, so the weight consistency is there.

I will keep those items and weights and try this again down the road.
Click to expand...


+++ Good idea will try this my self to see the results
 
I'm of the opinion that consistency is more important than absolute accuracy. As long as you do your load workup properly you will still find your max load, it's just your scale will be fibbing about what it actually is.
 
Eagleye said:
While I have a couple of electronic scales and a chargemaster combo [soon will be 2 of these] I still check on my very accurate balance beam scale [RCBS 304]

I have occasionally caught a charge that the electronic was off by .1 grain [inconsequential in a hunting load, BTW], even though it read the correct weight.

I am not super anal about charge weights unless I am prepping loads for a long range competition. Even my most accurate hunting rifles do not show
any group size difference at +- .1 grains from the target weight, even at 400 yards. Now a smaller varmint offering may show a drop difference, but not
any case holding 35 or more grains of powder. Dave.
Click to expand...


This is so true. There are very few rifles, including bench rest, that can show a difference between +or - .1 grain of powder in the case. The very odd 223 rem or 222 and smaller but even then????

That being said, I am anal when it comes to reloading. I want everything to be as consistent as I can make it. Consistency in loading is the key to consistent and repeatable accuracy.

When I first started shooting Hunter Bench Rest I got the accuracy bug. Previous to that, minute of gopher was just fine.

I have reluctantly been relaxing my standards but only to a point. Eagleye is correct in this. I often hear a new nimrod explaining to a bud how he tweaked his load by .1 grain and his accuracy drastically improved. Sorry, something else was done as well. There are so many other factors that will actually effect the accuracy of any rifle that a tenth grain of powder is the least of the worries. Most HBR shooters use a powder throw of choice and learn to use a specific technique to keep their loads consistently within the +/- tenth grain range. That means there can easily be .2 grains difference between any given load. This used to drive me nuts and I got ahold of a bunch of those small glass vials with stoppers and put a weighed charge in each of them. This practice drew more than a few smirks from the rest of the boys and girls in the match. They may or may not have gone through this themselves but they also KNEW I was wasting my time.

Making sure your components are from the same lot for each load is the recipe for accuracy. Change anything from primer type/lot, powder type/lot to bullet brass type/lot and you stand a very good chance of encountering significant changes.

The same goes for folks that don't hand load. Factory loaded ammo is fickle from one lot to the next. It is usually fine for minute of deer but whenever you change anything, sight in your rifle before hunting with it. Yes, there is the odd rifle out there that will shoot anything put into it to point of aim but those rifles are few and far between. I am blessed to have a few of those. They will stay in my battery until I can no longer hunt. Then they will be passed along to someone that appreciates them for what they are capable of.

For those that don't reload your best bet is to purchase a few dozen boxes or even a ten box carton so that your rifle is being fed with the ammo it was sighted in for. Even then, check it out before you start the season.
 
Good call on the measurement of some coins. Im going to have to try that and keep a record to see if anything changes down the road. Might have to keep the coins I use with my reloading supplies cause I dont know how close the coins weight from coin to coin, I guess I can check that too. heh
 
I use check weights made by Lyman, RCBS makes them as well. My set ranges from 1gr to 50gr. Use a charge master and always check the scale against check weights before starting. I've bought the set when I used a balance beam scale to be sure of accuracy. The sets are not too expensive, piece of mind for me knowing that the scale is accurate when starting to load.

Why not have both accuracy and consistency.
 
Accuracy vs Consistency, I don't think it makes a bit of difference "what you call it" as long as all cases have exactly the same amount of POWDER in them. I have the RCBS chargemaster, as well as balance beam and powder measure, lately the chargemaster has been accumulating dust as I find the powder measure and bal beam and trickler are faster and more accurate. OH yes, about the check weights for the bal beam keep them very close to the weight you are going to throw. A heavy check weight such as a bullet at 140gr is not the check weight to use if the powder weight is say 30 to 50grs.
 
hey, the next person who says that the chargemaster is accurate gets a fish slap... seriously, it's no better than a beam scale, stop it. display is +-.1 grains, and I have not actually found the linearity anywhere.
 
How many people use a beam scale, then confirm the weight with an electronic? Zero? I like my beam scale, but need an auto trickled badly though.
 
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