Thoughts on Canadian availability of military surplus rifles?

maple_leaf_eh said:
^^^^^

What I find most interesting about the MAS44, 49 and 49/56 is their dog $hit simplicity! The only moving parts are the trigger, spring, sear, hammer, spring, firing pin and bolt (with the extractor and ejector). Utterly perfect! I also can't believe the gas tube vents into a recess on the bolt carrier. Eugene Stoner made simple unnecessarily complicated.
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Well that certainly makes up for the artistic clockwork of the Berthier magazine/trigger group.
 
The_Gun_Boy said:
Really it all comes down to the dealers at the time they were surplused and which company bought them therefore where they ended up. Some dealers were Canadian only and some were American only. French rifles seem to be a bit more common in the states in terms of Berthiers and Lebels. I did hear that they first started to sell them in the states in the 1930s, which is why Remington started to make 8mm Lebel ammo at that time. Batches of them come in at other times as well. I have seem some Lebels at times on P&S, they have some Berthiers on now and some South American Mausers. You may consider importing one from down there through irunguns or Prophet River. The Mas 36s are around, I believe they came in around the 80s-90s. I've owned a couple of the Mas 36/51 which seem to be more common in my end of the country. Both of which I bought at gun shows and one came with a bunch of older ammo (200 rounds) which would have been contemporary to when they were brought in. I have never seen a Mas 49 in Canada but I have seen some Mas 49/56, they were expensive and some had the scopes. They come out of the wood work when they threatened to ban them. Ammo for both I think currently is only PPU and I haven't seem much around in a while, seemed to have dried up with the 7.65 Argentine/Belgian. I'm sure PPU will make more at some point. 8mm Lebel surplus I understand is rare and in poor condition, lots of hangfires and duds. The Greek Mannlichers are around too, I have owned a couple, they are just sporterized or just in absolutely horrendous condition.
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Funnily enough, I recently saw a MAS 44 in Canada.
 
Homestly I think the countries that sold early are plentiful on the market. Those that liquidated warehouses late and were also liberal democracies, well they smelted everything.
 
If someone had a stack of old S.I.R. catalogs and flyers it would interesting to see what was easily available at what prices 20-40 years ago. Given the prices of most new guns back then there was little surplus interest in my area. I wish I'd picked up a few back then.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Greece had two Balkan wars, WWI, the Greco-Turkish War, WWII, and the Civil War to consume their Mannlichers. Then to add to it when they were surplused because of how fine a hunting rifle the Mannlicher-Schroeder’s are the ones in best condition were sporterized.

There are some in country, I have a few, but they most certainly aren’t common.

Keep in mind there is also a lot of firearms in country which just aren’t for sale. For example I haven’t seen any Yugoslavian M24/47 or M48s for sale for a while and I know there is a bunch kicking around. I bought a few from dealers a decade ago.

There is also a decent amount of French firearms around (I have seen about 3 Berthier carbines for sale in the last week) but it also comes down to people being willing to sell. At the moment they have become much more popular due to people realizing the quality of them and books such as ‘Chassepot to Famas’.

People aren’t selling as much as they used to, when I started people would buy/sell/trade easily as you knew you could generally replace it if you wanted to. Now everyone holds on to what they have and only sell at higher prices. It’s weird as the prices have gone up, the willingness to sell has gone down.
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I regularly see quality rifles at market prices. They sit for months.

The auctions or interpersonal networks seem to be the new venue for serious collectors. Pieces often go for well over market value which make up for any premiums paid. Of course your mileage may vary.
 
The MAS-36s are seeming to become more scarce. Haven’t seen one on EE for months, and only seen one on GP recently (there’s two extremely overpriced 36/51s listed rn too). I would absolutely love to be able to find one, but they’re also not worth the 1800-2000 that people are asking for them.They’re realistically worth much less, imo.
 
I'm still finding some nice toys. Always good to get something that I already reload for.

Recently picked up an M48 Yugo Mauser, a Mauser 71 carbine, and a Spanish FR-8. No MAS yet but I'm still looking for something in my price range.
 
The_Gun_Boy said:
Really it all comes down to the dealers at the time they were surplused and which company bought them therefore where they ended up. Some dealers were Canadian only and some were American only. French rifles seem to be a bit more common in the states in terms of Berthiers and Lebels. I did hear that they first started to sell them in the states in the 1930s, which is why Remington started to make 8mm Lebel ammo at that time. Batches of them come in at other times as well. I have seem some Lebels at times on P&S, they have some Berthiers on now and some South American Mausers. You may consider importing one from down there through irunguns or Prophet River. The Mas 36s are around, I believe they came in around the 80s-90s. I've owned a couple of the Mas 36/51 which seem to be more common in my end of the country. Both of which I bought at gun shows and one came with a bunch of older ammo (200 rounds) which would have been contemporary to when they were brought in. I have never seen a Mas 49 in Canada but I have seen some Mas 49/56, they were expensive and some had the scopes. They come out of the wood work when they threatened to ban them. Ammo for both I think currently is only PPU and I haven't seem much around in a while, seemed to have dried up with the 7.65 Argentine/Belgian. I'm sure PPU will make more at some point. 8mm Lebel surplus I understand is rare and in poor condition, lots of hangfires and duds. The Greek Mannlichers are around too, I have owned a couple, they are just sporterized or just in absolutely horrendous condition.
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Remington made 8x50 Lebel ammunition because they had a contract during WW1 to do so. They were also contracted to produce Berthier rifles which turned out to be improperly toleranced and the entire batch was almost completely rejected. You'll find those turning up as 1920's sporters on occasion or as completely mint rifles that escaped being turned into railway spikes. A French accepted Remington Berthier is a true rarity.
 
BlackPowderBurner said:
Remington made 8x50 Lebel ammunition because they had a contract during WW1 to do so. They were also contracted to produce Berthier rifles which turned out to be improperly toleranced and the entire batch was almost completely rejected. You'll find those turning up as 1920's sporters on occasion or as completely mint rifles that escaped being turned into railway spikes. A French accepted Remington Berthier is a true rarity.
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The French claimed there were quality issues but I’ve never encountered a Remington part that would not interchange with a French produced one. So who really knows?

The Russians similarly rejected a lot of Remington mosins, but it seems to have had a lot to do with being picky over stock imperfections, and later over cash flow issues.
 
Our supply of ‘Russian’ firearms came 90% from the Ukrainian salt mines that are now absorbed into Russian territory so you can put it together on future shipments of quality mosins and SKSs.
The Ukrainian surplus was the last actual European well taken care of cheap plentiful stuff.
China has lots but the markup by the importers and sellers makes them not so desirable anymore.
 
BlackPowderBurner said:
Remington made 8x50 Lebel ammunition because they had a contract during WW1 to do so. They were also contracted to produce Berthier rifles which turned out to be improperly toleranced and the entire batch was almost completely rejected. You'll find those turning up as 1920's sporters on occasion or as completely mint rifles that escaped being turned into railway spikes. A French accepted Remington Berthier is a true rarity.
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Don't forget, the US issued 8x50 Lebel to it's own forces, to be used with the Chauchat light, blowback operated, machine guns they got from the French shortly after committing troops in WWI

Polish and Russian troops used both the rifles and machine guns during WWI
 
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