Thoughts on shipping rifles and insurance

handofzeus said:
Why not? If someone on the EE is taking in somebody's hard earned dollars why should they NOT try to satisfy their customer? I see zero difference other than some odd perception that private sales don't warrant the same level of security and satisfaction as commercial sales.
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Just so you know, the buyer pays for that insurance, not the business.
 
This turned into a Legalese thread fast enough. There's a lot of of misinformed beliefs when it comes to selling and buying, especially when shipping is involved. Most people are wrong, and some are right but for the wrong reasons. Buying and selling goods is provincially legislated.

For example, in Alberta, the Sale of Goods Act governs those transactions. Sections 27 states:
Duties of seller and buyer
27 It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods and of the buyer to accept and pay for them in accordance with the terms of the contract of sale.

This is clear enough, but it doesn't stop there. Section 32 states:

Delivery to carrier
32(1) When in pursuance of a contract of sale the seller is authorized or required to send the goods to the buyer, delivery of the goods to the carrier, whether named by the buyer or not, for the purpose of transmission to the buyer is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, delivery of the goods to the buyer.

(2) Unless otherwise authorized by the buyer, the seller shall make a contract with the carrier on behalf of the buyer that is reasonable, having regard to the nature of the goods and the other circumstances of the case, and if the seller omits to do so and the goods are lost or damaged in course of transit, the buyer may decline to treat the delivery to the carrier as a delivery to the buyer or may hold the seller responsible in damages.

(3) Unless otherwise agreed, when goods are sent by the seller to the buyer in a route involving sea transit under circumstances in which it is usual to insure, the seller shall give such notice to the buyer as will enable the buyer to insure them during their sea transit and if the seller fails to do so, the goods shall be deemed to be at the seller’s risk during the sea transit.

This is the relevant part. If shipping is agreed upon as part of the sale, the seller is deemed to have delivered the goods when he leaves them with the carrier. The seller is required to make a contract with the carrier on the buyer's behalf. If the buyer declines insurance, then the buyer is responsible for the loss. If the buyer requests insurance and the seller doesn't get it, the seller will be responsible for the loss. Part 3 is for sea shipping only, something we don't usually deal with here on CGN.

This act will be different for each Province but I suspect that if everyone did their research they would find similar conditions.
 
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chuck nelson said:
Just so you know, the buyer pays for that insurance, not the business.
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Yes, and I'm sure most of us include the $10-30 in our final price to cover that too. Charge whatever you like, it's your item. As a buyer I only question the presence of insurance on items over $200. As a seller I insure nearly everything over $50. I also pack the living hell out of my stuff. After being on the losing end of a couple transactions I tend to adhere to a
simple rule. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I ship as I would hope to receive.
 
handofzeus said:
Yes, and I'm sure most of us include the $10-30 in our final price to cover that too. Charge whatever you like, it's your item. As a buyer I only question the presence of insurance on items over $200. As a seller I insure nearly everything over $50. I also pack the living hell out of my stuff. After being on the losing end of a couple transactions I tend to adhere to a
simple rule. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I ship as I would hope to receive.
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Are we talking about packing or insurance?
 
Technically you aren't supposed to be shipping firearms via Canada post as regular parcels............SAY WHAT! I had a postmaster in Newfoundland who was a stickler for rules, he knew I was shipping & receiving rifles, one day I went to ship an old Enfield to BC. He was working and knew by the shape and weight of the box it was a rifle. Out came the Canada post regs and it was shown to me in black and white that: Firearms are required to be shipped Express Delivery by AIR ONLY Friearms shall not be sent as regular packages - or something to that effect, after all it was 12years ago. When he showed me that and told me the cost I bid him farewell and went to another post office the next town over.
 
Ship with signature, tracking, packaged well and properly protect the to and return addresses on the package and you likely wont have any issues.

Insurance isn't worth paying for as a buyer as it isn't a contract with you. You cannot claim on it.
As a seller, its your call if you feel you need insurance. As you are the one with the problem if it is damaged or disappears enroute.
 
Buckmastr said:
Ship with signature, tracking, packaged well and properly protect the to and return addresses on the package and you likely wont have any issues.

Insurance isn't worth paying for as a buyer as it isn't a contract with you. You cannot claim on it.
As a seller, its your call if you feel you need insurance. As you are the one with the problem if it is damaged or disappears enroute.
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So a business that sells guns picks up the tab for insurance?
 
I get insurance.

I have had one gun get "lost" ....stolen from Ottawa sort station. Pissed me off and that's back in the day of registries. It was nice to have CP pay out the claim and I could give back the buyer his cash without coming from my pocket.

Its pays to cover your ass and get insurance. Don't be cheap!

good side is the gun is listed as stolen and under my name so when it ever shows back up....I have a good chance at getting it.
 
chuck nelson said:
So a business that sells guns picks up the tab for insurance?
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I am not a business.

Example
I bought 300$ worth of bullets from Xreload that were damaged and lost in the mail. They made a claim to Canada Post.
They offered to refund my purchase or ship me another batch of bullets.
As a purchaser, it wasn't in my control or my risk. And I wasn't asked by them about insurance, and I didn't request it.
 
Buckmastr said:
As a seller, its your call if you feel you need insurance. As you are the one with the problem if it is damaged or disappears enroute.
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No, as a seller, you're not. See my post above.

Delivery to carrier
32(1) When in pursuance of a contract of sale the seller is authorized or required to send the goods to the buyer, delivery of the goods to the carrier, whether named by the buyer or not, for the purpose of transmission to the buyer is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, delivery of the goods to the buyer.

This is Alberta law.
 
The international commercial terms (Incoterms) have different predefined rules. From EXW, when a buyer is responsible for the shipping and insurance, to DDP, when a seller pays everything, including duties and taxes. By the end of the day, it all depends on a type of agreement that two parties make. IMHO, it's not a seller's obligation but a will, to cover shipping and insurance costs. If a seller doesn't provide it, a buyer may purchase full coverage for additional peace of mind.
 
Magellann said:
It shouldn't be the buyers or the sellers responsibility to guarantee delivery. If you ship with Canada Post or any other carrier you are paying them for their service. They should guarantee to provide what you paid for, not tell you to buy extra insurance.
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That is the way it should be, but sadly isn’t. It’s like paying someone to fix your car and having pay for insurance just in case they just don’t do it...
 
The last rifle I bought off the EE was packaged and shipped requiring a signature. I picked it up from the PO the day after it was delivered there and thought nothing of it. Two days latter a fellow who sits behind me at the junior hockey games I attend tell me what a nice rifle I just got in the mail. I told him I was very happy with it but how did he know I got a rifle in the mail. He explains how he went to the PO and picked up a parcel and when he got home he opened it and it was my rifle inside. Now even though the package had my name on it and required a signature they gave it to him without him having to sign for it. It is a good thing the guy knew me and was honest. He took it back and they rewrapped it before I picked it up the next day. I will always make sure that a package will have insurance on it after that little episode.
 
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