My new Cooper 6mm has a 10 twist barrel. It is sold as a varmint gun and will shoot 55 and 70gr bullets into cloverleaf holes at 100 yds. I'm having trouble trying to stabilize a 85gr Hornady Interbond load with it right now. If you want to shoot heavier bullets for deer then a 9 twist would be a better choice.
thoughts on the 243
- Thread starter Camper
- Start date
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
When I rebarrel my 1:10 .243 Lilja it will be with a faster twist barrel, probably a 1:8, to take advantage of the longer VLDs and to improve it's terminal performance. While I acknowledge that a .243 is capable of taking big game, I don't universally recommend it because, like the .22 centerfires, it is at its best on game up to 100 pounds. The exception here is caribou who willingly lay down and die with bullet wounds that other game would escape with.
To my way of thinking big game rounds start with the various 6.5s. The smaller diameter rounds seem to come with some sort of proviso concerning "proper" bullet choices, range limitations, and limitations to shot angles which champion the broadside shot but exclude quartering or from the rear shots. This is all fine for the expert, but to my way of thinking it effectively rules out the .243 as a top choice for either the novice hunter or the unsophisticated rifleman who might be a good enough shot, but who doesn't know the difference between one bullet and another and isn't inclined to pay extra for bullets designed to perform with high impact velocities. There is more to a big game rifle than flat trajectory, minimized recoil, and quarter minute accuracy. If you want a good coyote to deer rifle, check out a .260 Remington.
To my way of thinking big game rounds start with the various 6.5s. The smaller diameter rounds seem to come with some sort of proviso concerning "proper" bullet choices, range limitations, and limitations to shot angles which champion the broadside shot but exclude quartering or from the rear shots. This is all fine for the expert, but to my way of thinking it effectively rules out the .243 as a top choice for either the novice hunter or the unsophisticated rifleman who might be a good enough shot, but who doesn't know the difference between one bullet and another and isn't inclined to pay extra for bullets designed to perform with high impact velocities. There is more to a big game rifle than flat trajectory, minimized recoil, and quarter minute accuracy. If you want a good coyote to deer rifle, check out a .260 Remington.
"...ideal twist rate..." Commercial hunting rifles are rifled for heavy deer bullets. All of 'em slightly different. Ruger uses 1 in 9, Remington uses 1 in 9.125, Savage 1 in 9.25, Browning 1 in 10. Pick the rifle you like and use your deer load for varmints too. Commercial fmj's for hide hunting though. A 105 grain SP, while a dandy deer bullet, makes a great big hole in a ground hog.
modernworrior
CGN Regular
- Location
- Brampton On,
What about a 270 for deer and coyotes wouldn't that be even better ?
Interesting. Did you see Bartell's story about hunting deer with his son? He shot a deer, albeit a small one, with a 221 Fireball and a 45gr TSX. He posted pictures of the damage caused by the little bullet. I was impressed.
not that I would ever recomend it but didn't one of our more northern members have a pic of a polar bear dropped with a .243 ? seem to remember a single shot to the neck.
.243 like its been said already shot placement is everything.
.243 like its been said already shot placement is everything.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Both polar bear and moose along with innumerable caribou are taken every year with .223s, .22-250s, and .243s. That doesn't make it a good idea as repeatable terminal performance with light weight high velocity bullets has historically been difficult to quantify. Still subsistence hunters tend to be very good at what they do, hunting conditions one encounters in the North are different from hunting conditions in the South, and the ethics of the subsistence hunter are different from those of the sport hunter. The typical sport hunter doesn't have a much firearm knowledge or ability and therefore the wisdom in the choice of a small bore is questionable.
Enter mono-metal bullets. The TSXs and similar products from a number of manufacturers produce repeatable results from high velocity small bore rifles, and chances are pretty good you could successfully make one shot kills on quartering away big game with them. But these bullets are not commonly available in factory loaded ammo, and the average hunter is likely to avoid the sticker shock associated with factory ammo loaded with premium big game bullets. The novice hunter is often cash strapped and his hunts tend to be bare bones affairs, so he is looking for the least expensive ammunition available.
Unless the novice has been brought up in a hunting culture where guns, shooting, and hunting are an integral part of his upbringing, he won't know why bullet "A" is a better choice than bullet "B". Then again a 12 or 14 year old kid brought up in a family of hard core hunters and shooters probably isn't a novice. TB's kid is a case in point in that he has access to the best equipment, expert guidance, and he undoubtedly has some previous shooting experience, to the extent that the moniker of novice barely applies. If every novice were blessed with this combination, the chances that their initial exposure to big game hunting would be a positive experience increases exponentially.
By contrast, some novices have to figure it all out for themselves, not all of them are kids, and sad to say, some have never fired a centerfire rifle prior to their first hunting experience. Arming these guys with small bores is not a recipe for success any more than arming them with .300 magnums would be. For these reasons I don't endorse the use of small bore rifles for game over 100 pounds, despite the success claimed by many.
Enter mono-metal bullets. The TSXs and similar products from a number of manufacturers produce repeatable results from high velocity small bore rifles, and chances are pretty good you could successfully make one shot kills on quartering away big game with them. But these bullets are not commonly available in factory loaded ammo, and the average hunter is likely to avoid the sticker shock associated with factory ammo loaded with premium big game bullets. The novice hunter is often cash strapped and his hunts tend to be bare bones affairs, so he is looking for the least expensive ammunition available.
Unless the novice has been brought up in a hunting culture where guns, shooting, and hunting are an integral part of his upbringing, he won't know why bullet "A" is a better choice than bullet "B". Then again a 12 or 14 year old kid brought up in a family of hard core hunters and shooters probably isn't a novice. TB's kid is a case in point in that he has access to the best equipment, expert guidance, and he undoubtedly has some previous shooting experience, to the extent that the moniker of novice barely applies. If every novice were blessed with this combination, the chances that their initial exposure to big game hunting would be a positive experience increases exponentially.
By contrast, some novices have to figure it all out for themselves, not all of them are kids, and sad to say, some have never fired a centerfire rifle prior to their first hunting experience. Arming these guys with small bores is not a recipe for success any more than arming them with .300 magnums would be. For these reasons I don't endorse the use of small bore rifles for game over 100 pounds, despite the success claimed by many.
although I would not suggest doing so, a 55gr NBT @ 3800 fps broaside in the ribs *will* kill a deer, even a small BC deerheck it even exited
So, a 55gr NBT @ 4000 fps should work even better.
What Boomer said.
I have seen many deer fall to the .243, and I have come to think it fits the "expert only" level of deer cartridges. It is very nice when used within the capabilities of the bullet you use in it. It takes experience to know what performance you want from a bullet, and what performance it will produce according to any specific shot that is presented.
No reason you can't kill moose with a .243, if you have the right bullet and you know what type of shot you must have to make it work. You must also be able to not shoot when it is inappropriate. All that takes experience.
I have seen many deer fall to the .243, and I have come to think it fits the "expert only" level of deer cartridges. It is very nice when used within the capabilities of the bullet you use in it. It takes experience to know what performance you want from a bullet, and what performance it will produce according to any specific shot that is presented.
No reason you can't kill moose with a .243, if you have the right bullet and you know what type of shot you must have to make it work. You must also be able to not shoot when it is inappropriate. All that takes experience.
I guess the first point is the real issue. If it is true then you are right then your argument is sound. Having not given it too much thought I have always given hunters the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps it is a bit egocentric, but I would like to believe that a hunter is familiar with the game he is after - and by that I mean the animal's anatomy. He or she understands where to shoot and why that shot placement is neccessary. I would hope that the hunter goes to the shooting range and finds their limitation.
On the other hand I tend try and hunt alone, with my brother or only a couple of other close friends. At any rate your point is well taken.
One last note about TB's kid - his name is Gatehouse. You might have heard of him.
243 twist
i have used a 243 or 243AI for my deer season carry gun since the 1960 ? with heavey well constructed bullets it has taken what ever it was pointed at including my largest elk . i now use a custum tika model 55 with a 1-8 twist it will stabilize the heaver bullets that are reqired for propper bullet performance in med. size game it is a good caliberfor any responsible hunter
i have used a 243 or 243AI for my deer season carry gun since the 1960 ? with heavey well constructed bullets it has taken what ever it was pointed at including my largest elk . i now use a custum tika model 55 with a 1-8 twist it will stabilize the heaver bullets that are reqired for propper bullet performance in med. size game it is a good caliberfor any responsible hunter
