Thread 'Enfield Catastrophic Failure' …
- Thread starter BadgerDog
- Start date
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
I believe folks are confusing DP's with de-activated firearms. Two entirely different things. (even though both should never come close to a live round)
This DP Enfield had two half inch holes drilled into the receiver and chamber and over three people did not understand a brass cartridge case can not hold 45,000 CUP when unsupported by the chamber.
This accident was caused by lack of firearms knowledge and when legal action takes place it gives the firearms community and firearms a bad name. In his rush to get to the range and fire this 66 year old rifle he failed to inspect the rifle before firing it. The seller, the gunsmith, and the person who pulled the trigger did NOT know what they were doing.
On top of this in two other Enfield forums other "experts" are telling people how to "restore" DP rifles into shooters. More accidents waiting for a place to happen.
Below, Surplus rifle forum
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=705653&sid=115e58d3e3deb8e13e1c3bef6daa77cb
This accident was caused by lack of firearms knowledge and when legal action takes place it gives the firearms community and firearms a bad name. In his rush to get to the range and fire this 66 year old rifle he failed to inspect the rifle before firing it. The seller, the gunsmith, and the person who pulled the trigger did NOT know what they were doing.
On top of this in two other Enfield forums other "experts" are telling people how to "restore" DP rifles into shooters. More accidents waiting for a place to happen.
Below, Surplus rifle forum
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=705653&sid=115e58d3e3deb8e13e1c3bef6daa77cb
Ouch! But seriously....who does that?!
If you buy an old gun with stamps on it you don't understand, from a shady seller who uses a shady gunsmith, then go to shoot it without inspecting it or getting a second opinion, well, something bad is going to happen.
At least he wasn't hurt TOO bad or blinded.
-Steve
If you buy an old gun with stamps on it you don't understand, from a shady seller who uses a shady gunsmith, then go to shoot it without inspecting it or getting a second opinion, well, something bad is going to happen.
At least he wasn't hurt TOO bad or blinded.
-Steve
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
The holes were there from their time in the army. Rifles that were worn out were sometimes modified to Drill Purpose status. The standards for drill purpose varied, from simply shortening the firing pin, drilling various holes, and sometimes copper coating various parts. The parts were normally all stamped DP, and white strips of paint were applied to the fore and butt stocks. In the case of this Enfield, it would have had it's bolt face welded, the firing pin shortened, the white bands added, and the letters DP stamped and painted on various parts. It's purpose would have been to allow it for use in dry training, and alleviating the need for serviceable rifles from going through the repeated cycles of dry firing.
In the case of this rifle, it was imported into the US and sold by the Century arms international as a curio, with the warning that it was not to be shot. A buyer had a gunsmith replace the firing pin and bolt head, and sold the rifle as a functioning rifle. The bulk of the two holes were obscured by the wood, and the buyer did not notice them when he viewed the bore from the other end.
The DP markings are fairly well known in Canada, Britain and other commonwealth countries, but perhaps not as well known in the USA.
- Location
- West coast of Vancouver Island
Those holes are rather large to miss:-O
Deltasilver
Regular
- Location
- Right behind you...
Still could have been worse hey?
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483458&highlight=safety
ouch.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483458&highlight=safety
ouch.
With the utmost respect the Mr. Laidler who I have traded a few emails with and what smellie and finlog have said above, you should also remember this.
You have the right way, the wrong way and the Army way of doing things, if you read the 1931 Instructions for Armoures, read what Mr. Laidler tells you and then read the 1991 Canadian No.4 maintenance manual you will see differences. So remember the Canadian No.4 manual is written in such a way to keep an old war horse in service.
As an example if a fore stock had over .010 wood crush below the receiver and trigger guard the fore stock was to be replaced by British military standards.
If you look at the Canadian manual and read between the lines you will see a section about bent trigger guards and adjusting trigger pull. There are no more replacement fore stocks so the Canadian manuals states the Canadian armourer "MAY" have to straighten the trigger guards that were bent in the field to adjust trigger pull.
If their are no replacement fore stocks and the existing fore stock has too much wood crush the trigger guard will remain bent rather than taking an Enfield out of service.
Bottom line, read what Mr. Laidler has to say and apply it to the condition of your old war horse and remember there are more than one way of doing things. You are not going to throw away a fore stock as the British did and you are going to make do with what you have.
Wood crush can change the angle of the trigger guard to the point that it is impossible to adjust the lobes on the trigger for proper trigger pull. Below the word "MAY" means the trigger guard can also remain "bent" for proper trigger pull...................
"the right way, the wrong way and the Army way".... and what you "may" have to do to keep shooting your "old" war horse.
Read the Enfield manuals in Badgers online library and also read between the lines. Below, bending a trigger guard would be a Cardinal sin for a British Armourer, BUT you Canadians are still using the No.4 Enfield rifle, and "still" keeping them in service.
You have the right way, the wrong way and the Army way of doing things, if you read the 1931 Instructions for Armoures, read what Mr. Laidler tells you and then read the 1991 Canadian No.4 maintenance manual you will see differences. So remember the Canadian No.4 manual is written in such a way to keep an old war horse in service.
As an example if a fore stock had over .010 wood crush below the receiver and trigger guard the fore stock was to be replaced by British military standards.
If you look at the Canadian manual and read between the lines you will see a section about bent trigger guards and adjusting trigger pull. There are no more replacement fore stocks so the Canadian manuals states the Canadian armourer "MAY" have to straighten the trigger guards that were bent in the field to adjust trigger pull.
If their are no replacement fore stocks and the existing fore stock has too much wood crush the trigger guard will remain bent rather than taking an Enfield out of service.
Bottom line, read what Mr. Laidler has to say and apply it to the condition of your old war horse and remember there are more than one way of doing things. You are not going to throw away a fore stock as the British did and you are going to make do with what you have.
Wood crush can change the angle of the trigger guard to the point that it is impossible to adjust the lobes on the trigger for proper trigger pull. Below the word "MAY" means the trigger guard can also remain "bent" for proper trigger pull...................
"the right way, the wrong way and the Army way".... and what you "may" have to do to keep shooting your "old" war horse.
Read the Enfield manuals in Badgers online library and also read between the lines. Below, bending a trigger guard would be a Cardinal sin for a British Armourer, BUT you Canadians are still using the No.4 Enfield rifle, and "still" keeping them in service.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That's right. Any Century P-14 conversion to make a "Centurion" in -30-06 or .300WM was built using a DP marked receiver. I have one and have shot it hundreds of times. It is an accurate hunting rifle. What problems it had to deserve the DP declaration will remain a mystery, because it shows no signs whatsoever of a military armourer's gauges or inspections. The sight ears are off and the outsides burnished smooth except for the serial number.
Badger - good catch on getting Ian S to come to the party.
Any idiot can buy a C&R licence and buy DP rifles from Century Arms, any idiot can hang a sign outside his house saying "Gunsmith" even if they never went to gunsmithing school and any idiot can pull the trigger on a DP rifle and blow his thumb off.
Two half inch holes drilled in the sides of the receiver, a new firing pin and bolt head................ what were they thinking?
DP rifles come in many different types with different modifications and if you do not completely strip and inspect "YOUR" Enfield rifle before firing looking for problems and defects "NO" one else will.
A a few books, a little time, research and "BASIC" firearms knowledge can save eyes, fingers and your life.
This is for you Badger....................my "buddy" said he would miss me.
Two half inch holes drilled in the sides of the receiver, a new firing pin and bolt head................ what were they thinking?
DP rifles come in many different types with different modifications and if you do not completely strip and inspect "YOUR" Enfield rifle before firing looking for problems and defects "NO" one else will.
A a few books, a little time, research and "BASIC" firearms knowledge can save eyes, fingers and your life.
This is for you Badger....................my "buddy" said he would miss me.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Actualy I do fire a DP rifle. However it is a .303 Martini carbine that was relegated to DP status because it was obsolete. I disassembled it to check for any holes in the barrel. The firing pin had NOT been snipped. (note some of these were DP'd by drilling a hole UNDERNEATH the barrel!) I certainly would NOT even remotely consider doing anything with a Lee Enfield that had WHITE BANDS on the stock and a DP stamp even if the chamber had NOT been buggered.
