Threadcutting on a lathe
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Another one of those puzzles that look impossible. I found external threading isn't really that difficult once you get the hang of it. Now, on to internal threading.
Grizz
Another one of those puzzles that look impossible. I found external threading isn't really that difficult once you get the hang of it. Now, on to internal threading.
Grizz
Agree, especially into a blind hole...
Threading with the tool upside down and the lathe in reverse can be less stressful.
I'll have to give that a try next time.
I find his videos kind of painful to watch. The tech info is OK, but the continuous comedy show gets old fast.
Most newbs make way WAY too much out of cutting threads, pretty much like they make way too much out of grinding a tool that works.
RTFI. FTFI!
Read The F'ing Instructions. Follow the F'ing Instructions!
Most newbs make way WAY too much out of cutting threads, pretty much like they make way too much out of grinding a tool that works.
RTFI. FTFI!
Read The F'ing Instructions. Follow the F'ing Instructions!
How can not love TOT? I laughed out loud more than once during his videos.
Good threading instruction, regardless.
Trevj, some people don't read instructions well. Usually because they aren't familiar with the terms/nomenclature.
Not only that, it depends on how closely their lathe controls match those pictured in the instructions.
My lathes/milling machine are at least 25 years old. Yes, they are Chinese knock offs but they are reliable and run true. My only issue with them is they don't allow for rpms under 75 rpm. I had to make an attachment, with a rotisserie motor, and add a sheave on the back of the chuck to get it down to 30 rpm. I'm glad I don't have to use it often.
I have two lathes, one is ITC and the other is a Grizzly. The ITC has a three jaw chuck with a back gear set up and a quick change tool post. It does the lion's share of the work. I often make obsolete/expensive parts for the local farmers/ranchers. They show their appreciation by allowing me to hunt their properties.
The Grizzly has a four jaw chuck with a turret type tool post and a quick change gear box.
I like and trust both of them.
I watched this video and it's quite good once you get past the fluff. The thing is, his lathe's controls are not only in different locations than either of mine but have multiple adjustments on some of them.
Most people just don't use their machines enough to become familiar/confident with them.
Turning threads on pistol barrels can be tricky, when they're really fine.
Another thing I've noticed is that most people with hobby lathes don't have enough LIGHT ON THE WORK AREA.
The next thing, is they don't have material to practice on or make a trial run on.
When you're working with them every day or have had them long enough to use them, following instructions is easier.
I know of a couple of guys that bought old used lathes out of local high schools. They needed a lot of repair/tooling, which by the time it was all taken apart and done, it would have been cheaper to purchase a new one. In both cases, after the lathes were repaired and good for another 50 years of light use, they haven't turned over in 20 years. One is covered in rust/dust and the other has a very dusty tarp over it.
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Not only that, it depends on how closely their lathe controls match those pictured in the instructions.
My lathes/milling machine are at least 25 years old. Yes, they are Chinese knock offs but they are reliable and run true. My only issue with them is they don't allow for rpms under 75 rpm. I had to make an attachment, with a rotisserie motor, and add a sheave on the back of the chuck to get it down to 30 rpm. I'm glad I don't have to use it often.
I have two lathes, one is ITC and the other is a Grizzly. The ITC has a three jaw chuck with a back gear set up and a quick change tool post. It does the lion's share of the work. I often make obsolete/expensive parts for the local farmers/ranchers. They show their appreciation by allowing me to hunt their properties.
The Grizzly has a four jaw chuck with a turret type tool post and a quick change gear box.
I like and trust both of them.
I watched this video and it's quite good once you get past the fluff. The thing is, his lathe's controls are not only in different locations than either of mine but have multiple adjustments on some of them.
Most people just don't use their machines enough to become familiar/confident with them.
Turning threads on pistol barrels can be tricky, when they're really fine.
Another thing I've noticed is that most people with hobby lathes don't have enough LIGHT ON THE WORK AREA.
The next thing, is they don't have material to practice on or make a trial run on.
When you're working with them every day or have had them long enough to use them, following instructions is easier.
I know of a couple of guys that bought old used lathes out of local high schools. They needed a lot of repair/tooling, which by the time it was all taken apart and done, it would have been cheaper to purchase a new one. In both cases, after the lathes were repaired and good for another 50 years of light use, they haven't turned over in 20 years. One is covered in rust/dust and the other has a very dusty tarp over it.
SOCIALISM THRIVES ON POVERTY
TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019
Liberals really like POOR people, they're making more of them every day.
If you can't vote CPC, stay at home in protest
I don't buy in to the reading excuse, the familiarity one, nor the 'my controls are different' excuse either. RTFI, has nothing whatsoever to do with whether there is a manual available for the lathe.
People make thread cutting on a lathe out to be some bloody dark art, and it isn't. Grade school kids were expected to do this stuff, back when there were actual shop classes. Y'know, Shop. Where the 'dumb' kids, all got dumped. By Teachers who thought that anyone who didn't want a Liberal Arts Degree, must be dumb.
Trade School manuals are full of pictures. And they are not written at a very high level of reading required, for that matter. But mostly, they have pictures. And if you can't read and follow a blueprint, yer REALLY in the wrong field!
I've taught a fair few folks how to run a lathe. The excuses are LEGION! And you got most of them that were looped through, above. The ones that didn't make excuses, and Followed the F'ing Instructions, found that it WAS actually as easy as all that, while the ones that tried to make it harder than it needed to be, had a hell of a time.
Not familiar enough? Practice! In fact, cut some threads for practice! Lathe won't slow down? Practice on the end of a longer bar, way out at the other end of the lathe, away from the scary bits. Dead feckin easy.
No practice material? Get some! Bar stock is cheap as hell. Good bar stock, not crappy cold roll 1018, which is misery to make a decent thread in, as a newb. Buy some 12L14, some 303 stainless, 4140, or 416. 12L14 cuts like brass, and if you can't get a decent finish right off the bat, it's time to take a real close look at the cutter edge. 303 stainless is almost as nice. 4140 is CM barrel steel, 416 is what most stainless barrels are made of.
Anyone I ever met that had a metal lathe, could damn well afford a care package of decent steel by mail order. So you don't even have to be close to a supply house.
Owning a lathe isn't what makes you capable of making anything, any more than owning a fast car makes you a great driver. Practice.
Thank you for the heads up
I'll add this.
There are a bunch of places about the web that you can download the South Bend book, How To Run A Lathe. Or spend around $20 for a print copy. Worth having.
If you only buy one book, buy Technology of Machine Tools by Krar. It's a high school/college level text book that covers a WHOLE lot about lathe operations, and a whack load more. Clear pictures, great diagrams and clear instructions. Buy a used copy of eBay or Amazon, as the info a newborn needs is in the older books, and the prices are much better than the current version. And if you are looking up how to cut threads, you likely don't really need all the stuff in the newer editions on CNC and that sort of stuff.
Skip Machinery's Handbook unless you already have a bunch of other good books and feel the need to own the mother of all wall charts. In pre internet days, it was a pretty handy reference but most of that info is on the web for free, and you Edmonton end up beating your brains out against the shop table because the damn book has everything in it except what you are looking for! Budget $20 max, buy the oldest, cheapest copy you can get. Well worth hoarding any copy you find at five bucks each. Makes a swell gift to give to the other afflicted souls, suffering from old iron disease!
There are a bunch of places about the web that you can download the South Bend book, How To Run A Lathe. Or spend around $20 for a print copy. Worth having.
If you only buy one book, buy Technology of Machine Tools by Krar. It's a high school/college level text book that covers a WHOLE lot about lathe operations, and a whack load more. Clear pictures, great diagrams and clear instructions. Buy a used copy of eBay or Amazon, as the info a newborn needs is in the older books, and the prices are much better than the current version. And if you are looking up how to cut threads, you likely don't really need all the stuff in the newer editions on CNC and that sort of stuff.
Skip Machinery's Handbook unless you already have a bunch of other good books and feel the need to own the mother of all wall charts. In pre internet days, it was a pretty handy reference but most of that info is on the web for free, and you Edmonton end up beating your brains out against the shop table because the damn book has everything in it except what you are looking for! Budget $20 max, buy the oldest, cheapest copy you can get. Well worth hoarding any copy you find at five bucks each. Makes a swell gift to give to the other afflicted souls, suffering from old iron disease!
I'll add this.
There are a bunch of places about the web that you can download the South Bend book, How To Run A Lathe. Or spend around $20 for a print copy. Worth having.
If you only buy one book, buy Technology of Machine Tools by Krar. It's a high school/college level text book that covers a WHOLE lot about lathe operations, and a whack load more. Clear pictures, great diagrams and clear instructions. Buy a used copy of eBay or Amazon, as the info a newborn needs is in the older books, and the prices are much better than the current version. And if you are looking up how to cut threads, you likely don't really need all the stuff in the newer editions on CNC and that sort of stuff.
Skip Machinery's Handbook unless you already have a bunch of other good books and feel the need to own the mother of all wall charts. In pre internet days, it was a pretty handy reference but most of that info is on the web for free, and you Edmonton end up beating your brains out against the shop table because the damn book has everything in it except what you are looking for! Budget $20 max, buy the oldest, cheapest copy you can get. Well worth hoarding any copy you find at five bucks each. Makes a swell gift to give to the other afflicted souls, suffering from old iron disease!
Are there two versions of the South Bend book ? I got one that was very basic, mostly historical interest and not of much help, then I saw another, same title, but much more detailed.
Technology of machine tools is great, easy to find used copies on Amazon. Grizz
Well, not all people find it as "easy" as you do.
I personally don't have issues with cutting threads, other than getting proper speeds at times. Usually on larger diameter jobs.
Grinding the cutting tool also took practice but that was decades ago.
There are a lot of people that don't read well. At this stage of you life, I'm sure you've run across a few. There are others that shy away from using a screwdriver.
Lathes are usually a big investment for most amateurs. They don't go through trade school, aren't familiar with different grades of steel or the tools required to work them.
It's a big learning curve for a lot of relatively intelligent people.
You mention SHOP back in the day. That's where I got my first introduction to a lathe/mill/drill press. It was a long time before I had access to any of them again.
Practice is the best teacher. The thing is, some people just need a mentor. Some people are actually afraid of the machines and some people just can't grasp the simple concepts in how the lathe parts interact.
Lumping them all together because it all comes easily to you??????????????
As for going out and getting material to practice on, for most people that means more cash layout that they often just can't afford for one reason or another.
I know many people with inherited lathes/tooling they will never sell because they fully intend to learn how to use them someday. Often when if and when they get time to learn, the machines are rusted and maybe even warped from being dropped while moving or the surface their sitting on isn't level and they haven't leveled the machine.
For you and I these are easily understandable issues and we just deal with them as they arise. Newbies to the skill set required often have to change their perceptions and raise their levels of awareness to safely/competently operate even simple non programmable manual lathes.
SOCIALISM THRIVES ON POVERTY
TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019
Liberals really like POOR people, they're making more of them every day
If you can't vote CPC, stay at home in protest
I personally don't have issues with cutting threads, other than getting proper speeds at times. Usually on larger diameter jobs.
Grinding the cutting tool also took practice but that was decades ago.
There are a lot of people that don't read well. At this stage of you life, I'm sure you've run across a few. There are others that shy away from using a screwdriver.
Lathes are usually a big investment for most amateurs. They don't go through trade school, aren't familiar with different grades of steel or the tools required to work them.
It's a big learning curve for a lot of relatively intelligent people.
You mention SHOP back in the day. That's where I got my first introduction to a lathe/mill/drill press. It was a long time before I had access to any of them again.
Practice is the best teacher. The thing is, some people just need a mentor. Some people are actually afraid of the machines and some people just can't grasp the simple concepts in how the lathe parts interact.
Lumping them all together because it all comes easily to you??????????????
As for going out and getting material to practice on, for most people that means more cash layout that they often just can't afford for one reason or another.
I know many people with inherited lathes/tooling they will never sell because they fully intend to learn how to use them someday. Often when if and when they get time to learn, the machines are rusted and maybe even warped from being dropped while moving or the surface their sitting on isn't level and they haven't leveled the machine.
For you and I these are easily understandable issues and we just deal with them as they arise. Newbies to the skill set required often have to change their perceptions and raise their levels of awareness to safely/competently operate even simple non programmable manual lathes.
SOCIALISM THRIVES ON POVERTY
TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019
Liberals really like POOR people, they're making more of them every day
If you can't vote CPC, stay at home in protest
rifleman762
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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Heck no, I like living on the edge
. I had to internal thread a 2.5" deep 1/2-20 blind hole because the material was too hard for my Mastercrap tap. It just rolled the edges of the tap - piece of steel from my scrap bin that seemed pretty hard. I had to solder a chunk of HSS onto the end of a 3/8 round bar just to have a small enough internal threading bar to fit in the hole. Luckily I had lots of room for a relief cut. Technically it was not a blind hole but the exit at the bottom was 3/8" for a smooth shaft to move in and out. If you're curious I was making a manual handwheel type Central Axle Disconnect for my Dodge after my Posi-Lok broke. Then I broke the home-brew one and finally installed a one piece shaft.
there is an excellent repository of old manuals for damn near anything you can think of here:
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/pubs.aspx
I have an Altas 10F ~ a modest machine but does what I need (Atlas/Atlas Craftsman do not run in reverse - you have to be quick )
There is a MORE THAN EXCELLENT 60 page supplement in the atlas section that is basically a 60 page course on everything "threading"
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3455
check it out if you have any questions about threading - then go and find the gear ratio/setup/operation manual for your particular machine.
Me? I'm lucky, I have a quick change gear box ..... WHAT??!! that handbook is there too??
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=18212
Enjoy
OH - by the way - I had a friend GIVE me a copy of the machinery handbook - Ed. 26 I think, not the 4"x6" little guy, but the big 8.5x11 folio - I find it handier than flogging google when I need to look up a drill size or feed or whatever.... Pick one up if you can. Old ones are just fine - newer ones just add weird stuff no one ever uses.
http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/pubs.aspx
I have an Altas 10F ~ a modest machine but does what I need (Atlas/Atlas Craftsman do not run in reverse - you have to be quick
) There is a MORE THAN EXCELLENT 60 page supplement in the atlas section that is basically a 60 page course on everything "threading"
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3455
check it out if you have any questions about threading - then go and find the gear ratio/setup/operation manual for your particular machine.
Me? I'm lucky, I have a quick change gear box ..... WHAT??!! that handbook is there too??
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=18212
Enjoy
OH - by the way - I had a friend GIVE me a copy of the machinery handbook - Ed. 26 I think, not the 4"x6" little guy, but the big 8.5x11 folio - I find it handier than flogging google when I need to look up a drill size or feed or whatever.... Pick one up if you can. Old ones are just fine - newer ones just add weird stuff no one ever uses.
Are there two versions of the South Bend book ? I got one that was very basic, mostly historical interest and not of much help, then I saw another, same title, but much more detailed.
Grizz
SB first published it in around 1914-ish, and updated it several times. At least up until the 1960's some time, I think.
So yeah, there are a few versions around. Some are all belts and overhead shafts drive lathes, later books show more electric motors.
Also, be very aware that South Bend, as a company died in the late '80's, and Grizzly Tools bought the rights to the name. So, despite that 'South Bend has been in business for ### years' on their website, they have very little or nothing to do with the original South Bend. Just saying. But they'll sell you a really nice South Bend Logo wall clock, among other things...
Lee Valley used to sell a print copy that was old enough to be out of copyright, and Busy Bee Tools sold a different version.
Short version. It's not a manual of all things about YOUR lathe. The concepts they discuss and show are applicable to ALL lathes. The info is dated, there is no, or almost no coverage of modern carbide tooling, but most hobby guys, esp. beginners, don't really need the stuff anyway. HSS tools are cheap, and work for anything except making thousands of parts in a shift.
For what it's worth, Atlas printed a similar, if somewhat less iconic book, that also has some different types of information in it, stuff like setting up to wind coils of fine wire, for hobby electronics use, and the like, among other things. Same info, plus some different, worth grabbing if you run across it.
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Jesus you come across like one of the whiny apprentices!
You don't recognize the irony of running off with a great long whinge in print, about how hard folks find it to read things?
If you (and the whiny apprentices) spent as much time actually muckling on to practicing and trying what was told or shown, rather than spinning around in a dither trying to find an easier way, you'd all be much better at all sorts of skills that need to be learned and practiced.
Yeah, I did shop in Grade school. I did Trade school to supposedly actually learn this stuff formally, over 20 years after I bought my first lathe, and learned to make it do what I wanted it to do.
I broke parts, I broke tools, I made lousy tools, I made better tools, and eventually I built some skills.
Much, much later, I ended up teaching those skills.
So, whining at length about how different folks learn, isn't really falling on a sympathetic ear here.
I'm pretty sure that after a Cat Video, a video of a Kid Nutting himself on his bike going over a jump, the third video ever posted on the internet was some dude thinking he was solving everyone's problems with thread cutting on a lathe.
I'll stand by my comment earlier. Folks think it's some bloody dark art, and it bloody well isn't. It's a skill that has to be practiced and learned. Dithering around making excuses, just cuts into the time that would otherwise be spent doing so.
Watching someone do it, reading about doing it, frankly, anything other than doing it, isn't building the experience that makes the skill.
