I rechambered a No.1 to .45-120 and it definitely achieved A LOT more... but just not proportionate to the powder increase and felt recoil... frankly it beat the crap outta me... it was sold to another "sucker for punishment." I have fallen back to Lyman 405 cast and the new Hornady 325 FTX, with reasonable loads of 4198. Sure, agreed, the kills will not be spectacular (except on diminutive game), but they will be effective. I don't know how much experience you have with the cartridge, but if you load and shoot it much, I think it will grow on you.
Threw caution to the wind and bought a new double rifle
- Thread starter Ardent
- Start date
Totally off topic, sorry, but did that with a 12ga sxs coach gun about 25 years ago; flat on my back from a crouching position. couldn't get up for 10 minutes for laughing so hard.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Admittedly limited experience with .45-70, a H&R buffalo special or whatever they call it, with the good iron sights and one guide gun is the extent of it. I found the guide gun awkward in recoil (and I certainly don't mind recoil) for what it produced in numbers, velocity and energy wise. Quickly returned to the .375 H&H bolt gun, until I got perverted and into doubles.
I like the .45/70 in singles and doubles... The H&R Buffalo Classic is one of them, and many No.1's over the years. I have never been able to warm to it in a lever rifle, despite their popularity, and I have had a few.
I suspect you will have fun shooting this new one... what new gun isn't fun? I have looked at them many times and teetered, but early bad experiences with Baikal left me with brand-aversion.
I will keep an eye out for your report, as it is one I would trust.
It's the Russian Thug, I'll run with that.Forgive the disorganised post below, tired.
My only beef with .45-70 is it's not fast enough to shock in my half formed opinion, no doubt it kills just not confident about its "lightning bolt" kills like a .300 or fast .338/375.
The gun is surprisingly decent, I mean it is a bit crude but everything functions as advertised and really, it's a double for the price of a Remington 700- that's spectacular. If I keep it Hoyt I'll certainly treat it very roughly, as that's what I bought it for. Even my Merkel I cringe pushing it through alders, and frankly as I trust Dogleg's shooting so much left it behind a couple days at camp. But you worry about it there too, the Royal would even be worse and is a "travel rifle"- well insured and sunshine destinations I'm afraid.
From my as yet non-firing perspective this thing is a two barreled, roughly hewn but apparently well built short range, lightweight tool that meets every personal requirement I have of a double except for the speed of the cartridge. I like cartridges that can beat 2400fps with the heavier bullet weights in their spectrum, just seems they "smack" game harder, a lot more animals seem to fall down where they stood at those velocities than the slower and heavy stuff. Slow and heavy kills everything I've shot with it (quite a lot, cullingj, just not with any flourish. A bit slow to act unless a CNS hit.
I anticipate if I can hit a paper plate at 100 yards with both barrels and the regulation I set holds, I'll be forced to give this a very favourable review. That is entirely influenced by the price and novelty of being able to beat it up without a worry, a "for what it is" statement. In handling however, it is a real double rifle, and gives the experience in full albeit crudely. That's a nice thing, as it opens doubles up for everyone as an interest.
I wonder... I have a bunch of .45-100 brass, if reaming this out would allow any increase in velocity at the low pressures it can handle. That's so far out of my hand loading expertise with smokeless I don't know where to start. I suspect it would not function that way, and I'd likely just burn low charge loads of H4895 with more powder and the same performance as .45-70. Couldn't care less about an increase in recoil from the extra powder, I just want more velocity.
try the lever evolution set way out ?normally they need shorter brass to function in a lever , how long is the chamber?
- Location
- Steel Town
Oh Argent, I know you. That will be on EE soon enough. I'm as anal as they come, but you are even more so. You and Baikal go together like oil and water.
You had me for a moment when you posted this. I was following your new venture with interest, including the big sell off to fund outboards etc. Then wham a new double? I thought Dogleg must be a great tipper ;-) Or did you win the lotto? (I did read the working to the point of delerium bit....not good if you're flying)
Big and slow bullets need a big wide meplat....so I've read. Anyway that's the theory behind the beartooth Piledriver and several similar bullets like the ranch dog designs. Supposed to be a big difference in killing effect.
When you're done playing with that thing make sure you remember to update your Satterlee Mauser thread, I'm very interested in the performance you will get from your 9.5x57.
Best of luck, I've enjoyed reading your adventures here and on your site
Willy
Big and slow bullets need a big wide meplat....so I've read. Anyway that's the theory behind the beartooth Piledriver and several similar bullets like the ranch dog designs. Supposed to be a big difference in killing effect.
When you're done playing with that thing make sure you remember to update your Satterlee Mauser thread, I'm very interested in the performance you will get from your 9.5x57.
Best of luck, I've enjoyed reading your adventures here and on your site
Willy
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Will be sure to be frank about it, in handling, it's an actual double rifle and handles as such, would be a good way for folks to decide if they like doubles... Bearing in mind its limitations and where it comes from. We'll see if it hits what I point it at, that'll be #1.
Won't know for awhile yet, up north flying again, then out guiding again so won't play with it for a long time yet. But good point and worth looking into.
Just the EE here, there's another one on there last I looked fairly priced.
Appreciate the kind words Willy, will do on the 9.5x57, it'll be slow he's just receiving the blank now. I'll do a frank take on "first year outfitting" write up once the season's over, guiding late season goat next, read try and survive the north coast / alaskan weather in the wettest month of the year with a fellow from California. Half his agreement was a disclaimer about the severe weather, said expect everything but sunshine and a lot of the worst alternatives.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I wonder if that thing will have the stiffness to take lengthening to -90, -100 or -110.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
No need to hot rod the .45-70 by chambering it out. It will do the job on anything that walks within sensible distances with lead boolits sized fer the game.
I like mine, put a skinner peep on it with the insert removed its a first rate ghost ring , far ,far superior to the original rear sight. If the hinge springs prove too stiff dissasemble the rifle and replace them with suitable springs. I have some peelable aluminum shim material for the right barrel if you encounter vertical dispersion issues. These things are like russian helicopters, strong,simple and easy to keep going.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yea it would be unfortunately and I wouldn't consider it, as the .450 NE operates at 38,000psi, about triple what Baikal says this will handle for pressure. I'm happy to warm .45-70 pressures a little bit but that's a whole different ballgame, and the stock likely wouldn't hold up anyhow, low density wood.
These rifles were/are available in 30-06, they should be able to handle the 450.
Now IF it is built on their shotgun action, it should be perfectly reasonable to load the 45-70 to 24,000 psi. Were it mine I'd have no qualms about loading to "Marlin" levels.
Now IF it is built on their shotgun action, it should be perfectly reasonable to load the 45-70 to 24,000 psi. Were it mine I'd have no qualms about loading to "Marlin" levels.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Just ran the breech face pressure calculations, the .450 really doesn't have an appreciably larger base than the .30-06 so breech face pressures are low,
.30-06 = 10,000lbs
.450 NE = 9,000lbs
Fair point. I'm not sure these shotgun thickness barrels are up to triple the pressure that Baikal recommends though. Seems the action is good for it, barrels and low density wood stock, likely not. The barrels are about the same as a light double shotgun for thickness, not much more than a thick fingernail.
.30-06 = 10,000lbs
.450 NE = 9,000lbs
Fair point. I'm not sure these shotgun thickness barrels are up to triple the pressure that Baikal recommends though. Seems the action is good for it, barrels and low density wood stock, likely not. The barrels are about the same as a light double shotgun for thickness, not much more than a thick fingernail.
