Tikka T3 Stock swap and reloading

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TarpMan

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I have recently started reloading for my T3 in .30/06 with the close supervision of a more experienced friend. I have discovered that my reloads are not shooting anywhere near what the factory stuff does. I have also switched stocks from the factory walnut stock to the factory synthetic stock. My problem is the group size with factory ammo has gone from easily MOA 3 shots off the bench or prone at 100m, and slightly above that at 200m, to 4-6" groups with handloads.

The details on the gun and handloads: Tikka T3 with synthetic stock and Cerakoted 22" barrel, Winchester brass, CCI 200 LR primers, H4350 powder in 52-55gr behind Swift Scirocco 180gr .308cal bullets. The only load that showed potential was the 53.5 and 54.0 grain loads that gave 4-5" groups with no vertical stringing. The other loads all showed vertical stringing or bunches (not groups) of holes way off the 24"x48" sheet of paper.

Have any of you found the synthetic stock has different pressure points than the walnut stock? Anyone else out there done the stock swap too?

I know this gun can shoot, and shooting a small group with the factory ammo at the same session only emphasizes the point.

Any pet loads using the same bullets?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
I have checked the stock and the bedding screws, all is well. The scope rings and bases are all tight. The bizarre part is the factory ammo still shoots MOA or very close.
 
Some guns just don't like certain powder bullet combos. I had a Tikka 7-08 that would shoot 3-4" groups with 6 different powders with partitions. I switched to SST's and shot 3 consecutive 1/2" 5 shot groups,....very happy!
 
Maybe it is a tipped bullet thing... When I first got the gun a friend and I bought a bunch of different ammo and split it to see what shot well out of each gun (both .30/06). Mine didn't shoot Accubonds, Ballistic Silvertips, or Scirocco's very well. All the blunt tip stuff shot MOA or close to it. I figured with handloads I would be able to tweak them to shoot well enough for hunting.
 
Your load also seems very mild, maybe not enough pressure. Some Tikka/Sako products have very long throats(sort of the secret of why they shoot right away) if you load them too mild you may not be stabilizing the bullets. With a 168 gr TSX I load 58.5 grains of H4350 in my sons sako 75 30-06.
 
Humm welcome to the tikka World ... Dunno what they put in those rifle but they are really really hard on the shooter to decide what kind of ammo to put in it.. I never had a group under 2-3 inch with commercial ammo 30-06 except for the Winchester Super X soft point 180gr.. 18$ a box at Wal-mart.. I tried everything in it with nothing to write to his mother.. that's why I decided to reload about 2 years ago. I have really great result with ballistic tip 165 gr. about 1/2'' at 100 yards. about 3/4 inch with Barnes TSX and TTSX 168gr. and also 1/2 '' with Sierra Matchking 175 gr. For the powder I'm now on h4350 But everything look about the same , I tried Varget, Vithavuori N560 ( my best so far but hard to find and a bit more pricey) and Also XBR the rifle is grouping fine with my reload ... By the way mine don't like sirroco too, Also Accubond and the E3 bullet
 
Are your more accurate factory loads using the same Scirocco bullet??? I always start my accuracy search by trying as many diff. bullets as i can, when i find the most accurate bullet, I use that bullet to find the best powder, seating depth, vel. etc...
 
My Tikkas have all liked Nosler Partitions and Ballistic tips and Sierra match BT's. I back the bullets off about 1/16 inch from the lands and load them up till the primers start to flatten.
 
I have seen the same results with my Tikka T3 lite in 30-06. I have shot Winchester factory 165gr. with .500" groups at 100 yards.. I am now shooting 165gr. Accubonds with 57.5 gr of IMR 4350 just under 1" with two shots in the same hole. It shoots Sierra game kings about the same. Good enough for me!
 
The factory loaded Scirocco 180gr is the same bullet I am using for reloading. I had one store measure a factory round for me and it turned out to be 3.3125, and my OAL is 3.34. I don't know if that would make that much of a difference?

The more I discuss this with people, the more I am thinking it is a pressure point in the new stock that is contacting the barrel as the barrel heats up while I shoot my test loads. Except that the last session's first group, before the barrel got warm at all was not even near my target and the two factory rounds I sent down range to start off were dead center, less than an inch apart. I know that two rounds doesn't count for a group, but none of the handloads have been near the center of the target.
 
It is interesting to hear about the relatively hot loads some are finding necessary to regain the accuracy found in factory loads. I have loaded up to 55.0 grains of H4350 with no signs of too much pressure (cratered primers, case neck splits, sticky bolt opening after firing). I am going to take the stock off and search for any contact points as I have put about 60 rounds down the barrel since swapping the stock and getting it cerakoted.
 
TarpMan said:
The factory loaded Scirocco 180gr is the same bullet I am using for reloading. I had one store measure a factory round for me and it turned out to be 3.3125, and my OAL is 3.34. I don't know if that would make that much of a difference?

The more I discuss this with people, the more I am thinking it is a pressure point in the new stock that is contacting the barrel as the barrel heats up while I shoot my test loads. Except that the last session's first group, before the barrel got warm at all was not even near my target and the two factory rounds I sent down range to start off were dead center, less than an inch apart. I know that two rounds doesn't count for a group, but none of the handloads have been near the center of the target.
Click to expand...

When testing loads for accuracy don't worry about your shots not hitting the center of the target. A group anywhere on papger will tell you what the rifle likes or dislikes. When you find your accuracy load then adjust the scope to center your group.

Regards

Aubrey
 
Yes, I know that the different loads will have varying points of impact. I just can't get them to group. At this rate, I might end up burning through a whole box of 100 bullets just to find a load that will shoot MOA, or close to it.
 
TarpMan said:
Yes, I know that the different loads will have varying points of impact. I just can't get them to group. At this rate, I might end up burning through a whole box of 100 bullets just to find a load that will shoot MOA, or close to it.
Click to expand...

Load development can sometimes be very time consuming. Shooting 100 bullets or more is not unusual. Keep detailed records of your load data and the results and you will eventually find the load you are looking for.

Regards

Aubrey
 
Sounds to me that you are looking for a reason to take the stock off your rifle......

If you crony the factory loads I bet you will find they are moving at a different velocity than your reloads. If you can get your reloads to the same velocity with out any pressure signs then I think you will find the groups will tighten up.

I really don't think that the stock is the problem as the rifle shoots factory loads with the accuracy you are looking for. If the stock was the problem you would see the factory loads doing the same thing as your reloads, ie: all over the paper.

If you are trying to replicate the factory load that shoots well in your rifle first you have to match the brass, bullet and then velocity, otherwise you are just putting rounds down range for no real purpose.

If you try one powder with that same bullet and you don't get the results you desire then it is time to change to a different powder. It is tough to say what powder you should try next if you don't know the velocity of your current load and the velocity of the factory load as well.

As a side note I have had rifles that were real picky about OAL. One 30-06 in particular would shoot under 1" at 100y but if you moved another 15 thou off the or jammed them onto the lands lands the same load opened to 3"+.

Cheers!
 
Yes, I know that the different loads will have varying points of impact. I just can't get them to group. At this rate, I might end up burning through a whole box of 100 bullets just to find a load that will shoot MOA, or close to it.
Click to expand...

Maybe you could take a read about the Ladder test from called incremential Load development.. http://www.desertsharpshooters.com/manuals/incredload.pdf

This is the method I'm using .. Really a time and money saving method.. And if you read correctly you will understand a lot about your rifle and also you will maybe find a better group around the max of the recipe ... With H4350 my best is around 58 gr. and in the chrony it look like around 2900 fps for 168 gr. tsx .050 '' off the lands

Hope the method will help you out,, they say in the article that you could shoot it from 200 yards or 300 yards but 300 yards is the way to go ... At 200 it is becoming really hard to identify every round on the paper ..
 
First thing I would do is get rid of any pressure points. I have read several threads about scirocco's being tricky to find a load. After its free floated, try some 165gr ballistic tips, accubonds, or interlocks. Should be able to run them up to 58-59 gr H4350.

Usually the first place I start is with Nosler or Hornady. If you want to stay with 180's, try up to 56-57gr. For factory ammo, the 3 different T3's I had would all shoot Federal blue box into an inch or better.
 
I think that your problem has nothing to do with your loads it is the stock being not assembled properly. It is possible to secure stock with recoil lag not in the grove. Check it out.
Vic
 
Vic, I checked the stock and the recoil lug is in the groove. I am tending to agree it is a problem with the loads. So far with my investigation, I cannot find a pressure point. Having a chronograph would certainly help with the velocity question, but I am out of luck on that front.

Thanks for the suggestion on the ladder testing article. Will give it a read.

Jonathan
 
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