Time for a double. Verney-Carron or Merkel???

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Crazy_Farmer

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Let's just say after saving up for a ridiculously over priced house in vancouvers stupidly red hot market, slight change of plans and I'm afforded the ability to finally buy a gun I've wanted since a small kid. Some dreams never do seem to leave your mind.

Looking to keep it under 12k. I only know the couple Canadian stores that carry merkels or VC and seems like I could get into one for the price I'm looking. But I'm very open to the used market and would love to pick up somebodies safe queen or used on a safari and put away! Figured this forum was better anyways for traffic.

Thinking .470 or .450/400. Always loved the idea of a double in .450/400 but it isn't too much bigger then my .375 HH old sako I have. Thinking if I do it once I might as well do it right and step into a .470, who knows what I'll be someday able to hunt and would prefer the .470.

heard nothing but bad about sabatti. Leaves only a few other good quality reasonable prices makers. Who's held both makes and what do you think.
 
I have handled both of these.... I liked the Verney Caron I handled at Tradex, but the Merkel was a slimmer design that felt like it would carry better...... I personally really like the feel of Krieghoff doubles.....

Wolverine has a beautiful Krieghoff that is an ex display model and is $6000 off regular retail.... bringing it down within your $10k range......

https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/P...70NE--23-5--Barrel-with-Ejectors---Ex-Display

KRIKRIEG470NE.jpg
 
A new VC or Chapuis or K-gun most likely won't be in your price range thanks to our dollar. Merkel's, Blasers are, may be a Chapuis with old stock on hand. There was a VC 450-400 around, for 10, with brass, Martini would know the fella, it was on his site for a couple of yrs, hadn't sold in 2015 as I saw it at Cgy gun show. He may still have it.
I didn't go to the show this yr, he may have been there again. Cgy Shooting Ctr has a few new ones, may know of used ones. Wolverine is worth a call, and Prophet River, to ask what they know of unadvertised guns around.
 
A double in 303British, 7x57R or 9.3x72 might see more use in the long run as it would make more sense for a lot of hunting we already do.

I'd love to have a double rifle in 303.
 
I have handled all the doubles and I purchased a Merkel, I really like it and just recently mounted a Talley base and a Leupold 1-4X20 VX II scope on it. I too decided that if one was going to own a double it had to be a .470 NE, what else? The only other double I would consider is a step up and into the Heym Professional model. I really don't like the gadgetry of the Kreigoff firing/safety system and the VC and Kreigoff are too light in weight to properly handle the 470 NE cartridge, which Taylor says should be 10.5 pounds. I know of few men who have more experience with doubles and therefore I trust what he has written about them.
My Merkel will with each barrel shoot right along with bolt guns for accuracy at 50 mtrs and the spread is only 2 1/2 inches from left to right at 50 mtrs as well, with my reloads using 500 gn Woodleighs. I can highly recommend the Merkel as a working accurate simple double.
 
How it fits is super important.
A double rifle must fit and come up to shoot like putting a spoon of food into your mouth. It must be that repeatable.
I have used my Merkel for quite some time now (.470). I am 6 foot 2 inch with longer arms. While the German guns usually have a long LOP, I still needed to add a good 1.5 inch recoil pad.
Over the years I discovered how Merkel's tight pistol grip tends to cause my trigger finger on my relatively large hands to get hit. That hurts!
I added a rubber bumper on the back of the trigger guard and it works well.
I have since found that the straighter grips are better for me. It gives my hand more space.
Talking to Ralph Martini (the fellow I bought it from and who did the safety disconnect work and sight work) several years after the fact, he asked out of the blue if that grip pounds my hand. He of course re-designed the Heym bolt rifle and has convinced Heym to relax the grip radius to allow for better comfort and fit.
You may wish to cant the rifle stock to allow a better fit if your face is rounder...it all makes a big difference for the quick reflex shots.
Fit in a double is not just an option, it is everything.
 
Very envious. I personally don't have a reason for a double rifle but I understand the allure. Good for you for taking the plunge.
 
Thanks for all the inputs guys. Good stuff that I agree with. I'm about the same as you 6-3, long arms and big hands. I had very similar problems with the new Benelli vinci shotguns. The pistol grip in the stock is way to sharp of a curve and I'd bash my middle knuckle into the trigger guard. Good to know about lop and buttpad.

As for fit that's one concern, kind of hard to test them all out and shoulder them locally but that's truely the best option I agree. Might have to head south and shoulder some. I've grown up with lots of double shotguns though, always been a fan. So I know the fit and balance and weight are all huge. Should shoulder right to where you aim everytime. Wingshooting is always fast action and if it doesn't shoulder right you notice the misses! It should be natural and a second instinct. Dads got nice old lc smith double and a baker. I've got a CZ and sold others. Love side by side shotguns and rifles!

I really think the more I get into one a .470 is the right choice. Ammo wise too.
 
I think you have the right idea...... I wouldn't drop that on one gun without shouldering it and seeing it...... In fact, I would say it's worthy of a trip to handle them all....... What's $1000 on travel and hotel when you are picking up your personal trademark rifle?..... I have lost way more than that buying guns that looked good on paper and didn't fit......

You have a great starting point here and I look forward to your adventure... The gun you buy will be worth almost half of my collection!....... Enjoy and report back.....
 
I wish I was the one asking these questions! One day when I don't have a young family and a mortgage.

I think I would go for a .450 a .470 or even a .500 if a good fitting one happened to be avaliable at the right price. In a once in a life time rifle I would go larger than .450/400.
 
Crazy_Farmer said:
Thanks for all the inputs guys. Good stuff that I agree with. I'm about the same as you 6-3, long arms and big hands. I had very similar problems with the new Benelli vinci shotguns. The pistol grip in the stock is way to sharp of a curve and I'd bash my middle knuckle into the trigger guard. Good to know about lop and buttpad.

As for fit that's one concern, kind of hard to test them all out and shoulder them locally but that's truely the best option I agree. Might have to head south and shoulder some. I've grown up with lots of double shotguns though, always been a fan. So I know the fit and balance and weight are all huge. Should shoulder right to where you aim everytime. Wingshooting is always fast action and if it doesn't shoulder right you notice the misses! It should be natural and a second instinct. Dads got nice old lc smith double and a baker. I've got a CZ and sold others. Love side by side shotguns and rifles!

I really think the more I get into one a .470 is the right choice. Ammo wise too.
Click to expand...

I may have an option for seeing if one fits. Send me an email to guy@wolverinesupplies.com and I will let you know what I have in mind
 
Reading that you are a double shotgun sort of guy, I too loved my sxs shotguns, but I have since centred on shotgunning with sxs with only double triggers.
I found that in a pressure situation I would be pulling the front trigger on my double rifles twice (as with my single trigger shotguns). Muscle memory is so important in this type of shooting and I like the practice with the sxs shotguns...they really aid in practice instinct shooting with the rifles.

BTW - if you do try on rifles..use the type of clothing that you expect to use in the field. It matters.
 
Something special about hunting with a double no matter what the name is. Make sure it fits. My double is cheap baikal but it's built on the same frame as the baikal sxs shotgun I use most. I can shoot running rabbits with my rifle it fits so good. Almost 50000 rounds thru my sxs shotgun and about 700 thru my sxs rifle. It points exactly where I look.
I'd go 450/400 but that's just me. Someday ill get a Chapuis I hope
 
Thought I might post a couple pics of my Merkel, just to whet your appetite...........Oh and I got mine from John at Wolverine.











This target was shot while removing the scope between each pair of shots and then replacing it and shoot another R+L then remove it go and number the target and then go back to the bench and replace it and shoot another R+L. The spread of the 2 group averages is roughly 2 1/2" and as you may note they have crossed already meaning that at less than 50 mtrs the groups would be closer together. So this means that at nearly hand to hand distances with big nasty uglies, the shots will be going all in 1 hole give or take. Given the accuracy of each barrel and being sighted for the right barrel on POA at 50 mtrs I would have no problem making an accurately placed shot out to 100 mtrs or maybe even more with some practice.
Have I mentioned that I love my .470 NE Merkel............I too love and have shot SXS shotguns all my life and the Merkel shoots and shoulders just like my old Brno sidelock ejector SXS, just a tad heavier. I am convinced I could do relatively well shooting trap with this rifle. I have done it in the past with 22s and with my Sako Safari 375, with some success but have never tried it with the double.
 
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