Time to close the Manitoba deer season for at least 2014 and 2015
- Thread starter rsp1761
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Rooster1a2
Regular
- Location
- North Vancouver, BC
Crap, I was hoping to start deer hunting this year.
Well I have seen next to no deer in Saskatchewan this winter either. Most people didn't do very well this fall either. Be interesting to see what limits; if any, the Saskatchewan Environment puts on deer hunting this season.
stevesummit
CGN Regular
- Location
- spruce grove
I have decided that I would buy my tags this year but not hunt to give the deer a chance to recoup a little ! Jumped six does yesterday and the snow is still belly deep ! Otherwise the deer look healthy
Native/Metis issue aside it remains the right thing to do. Their "rights" are not subject to regulatory changes by Manitoba Conservation. Best we could hope for is that they are consulted and agree its time to take a step back however if MC did elect to shut down the season it would be a hard PR sell for them to carry on as they typically do...
Back in 73-74 it was shut down and when it came back it was legendary...
As for the deer looking healthy even the deer in the city around here are looking rough and anybody that seriously hunts deer in MB knows how bad it already is....
Time to shut it down...
Back in 73-74 it was shut down and when it came back it was legendary...
As for the deer looking healthy even the deer in the city around here are looking rough and anybody that seriously hunts deer in MB knows how bad it already is....
Time to shut it down...
Something in the city boundaries would make sense at some point but for now I am concerned they will respond with some crappy half-measure where they shut down certain zones or shorten the season again...it needs to be shut down...period...the renewable resource needs time and space to renew. As hunters we need to be at the forefront of sustainable use and doing what is best for the population...
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
There have been huge advances in technology and off road vehicles since the 70's when it was closed, not to mention the fact the population increase of subsistence hunters, not the least of which is the recently awarded Metis rights. The end result couldn't be compared to what it was 40 years ago.
There is a constitutional provision which allows the closure for all involved. The fact we're dealing with politicians looking for votes would probably prohibit it from being implemented though.
Everybody is aware of the issue of treaty and Metis hunters and the advancements in technology vs the old days...I was however unaware of a Constitutional provision that would allow their "rights" to be suspended...do you have a link to that?? Txs...
As for the Metis specifically they have a farcical system with no enforcement provisions that issues tags and sets seasons...I believe this is at the discretion of the MMF and perhaps a PR campaign could get them to suspend those?? Hard to say but for the moment the fact remains that deer hunting after this winter will not be sustainable...
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
This article a few days ago in the Free Press could be applied to deer as well:
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/op...s-moose-to-limit-240434201.html?device=mobile
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Uncontrolled hunting pushes moose to limit
By: Brian Ransom
Posted: 01/16/2014 1:00 AM
Alexandra Paul's article Where have all the moose gone? (Jan. 13) provides thought-provoking insight into the plight of moose in Manitoba, which I believe is an emerging and inevitable tragedy. Consequently, I am offering some thoughts about the problem's cause and effects.
The cause is the constitutional requirement moose populations must be essentially destroyed before they can be managed. The ultimate effect will inevitably render worthless the right of aboriginal people to hunt moose because there will be too few to hunt. There will also be much collateral damage to the interests of non-aboriginal people as this tragedy unfolds, but aboriginal people have the most to lose.
Treaty and aboriginal rights relating to hunting are recognized and affirmed by Section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982. These rights guarantee aboriginal people may hunt animals such as moose on unoccupied Crown land and any other lands to which they may have access.
Court decisions over the years have determined aboriginal people may hunt such animals in any manner they wish with the only constraints being issues of safety. The consequence is aboriginal people may legally hunt in ways that are illegal for anyone else. For example, they may hunt at any time of the year, day or night, with the use of modern equipment such as night-vision optics and spotlights.
There are perhaps 200,000 aboriginal people in Manitoba who have these hunting rights. With today's technology, and growing aboriginal population, the exercise of these rights is unsustainable.
They may hunt with vehicles without regard to designated trails other hunters must use, and they may kill any number of moose without restriction as to gender or age so long as the meat is for food. Meat may be given to other people holding aboriginal hunting rights but must not be sold nor given to non-aboriginal people.
Court decisions have also determined the rights of aboriginal people to hunt for food take precedence over hunting by those who don't hold those rights. The practical effect of this is already being experienced in Manitoba as additional parts of the province are closed to licensed hunting of moose. There is no regulatory alternative to this approach.
Although there is a constitutional provision that enables aboriginal hunting rights to be constrained for conservation purposes, this may only be done after all non-aboriginal hunting has been terminated. This is how Dr. Crichton's prediction there will be no licensed hunting of moose by 2020 might well come true. It is not because there won't be any moose by 2020 but that there won't be any in excess of the entitlements of aboriginal people.
Because these are constitutionally protected rights the government of Manitoba does not have the power to alter them. Manitoba is therefore limited to seeking co-operation from First Nations and Métis people to voluntarily limit the exercise of their rights.
While First Nation and Métis leaders may encourage their people to co-operate in these co-management efforts, they do not have the legal authority to restrict the exercise of hunting rights by individuals precisely because they are individual rights, not group rights.
The First Nation and Métis people living in what is now Manitoba in 1870 were harvesting moose without external restrictions. The treaties recognized that fact as a right of First Nations people and court decisions have recently done the same for Métis people.
This was entirely realistic when the treaties were negotiated. Today, there are perhaps 200,000 aboriginal people in Manitoba who have these hunting rights. With today's technology, and growing aboriginal population, the exercise of these rights is unsustainable.
I believe it is inevitable uncontrolled hunting eventually will overwhelm moose populations in most of Manitoba, irrespective of other factors such as parasites, predators and habitat. My guess is many First Nations and Métis people understand this and can envision the impending tragedy but are powerless to control what the Constitution says can only be regulated when there is a conservation crisis.
By that time it will be too late.
This will truly be a "tragedy of the commons" where the rational acts of individuals eventually destroy the common interests.
Brian Ransom, a minister in the Conservative government of Sterling Lyon, is a consultant to First Nations on Manitoba Hydro issues.
Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition January 16, 2014 0
Republic of Alberta
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- ,location, location
Whoa! don't get to carried away. I don't think you guys need to shut the hunt right down. A good deer count and proactive game management is all that is needed. The winters many parts of this country have experienced are no different than the average winter around here where I live. What you guys have been seeing this year and last is not much different than what we get every year and yet the whitetails continue to survive.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
No problem, I thought it was a very well written article. They are few and far between in regard to this topic.
Weather statistics since the late 1800's would indicate otherwise.
It's really too early to ascertain what this winter will do to the deer population. The highest mortality comes from a late spring with excessive snow, like last year. If we have a normal and timely melt, the deer will be OK.
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Normally I am not in favour of "arm chair game managers" trying to make decisions for the professionals. However the government game managers do want to know what the hunting populations would like to see and they sometimes need a little push to motivate them toward change.
Sometimes a "change" to the regulations or the act is required for an idea like this. And that becomes a difficult issue. If the change has to go to the Legislature it takes a lot of time and preparation. Then to open the deer season would take a similar amount of time and preparation.
The anti hunting people would have a hard time getting the season closed but they may have an easier time stopping it from being opened up again.
Game seasons on a draw are easier to manipulate. You can give out 200 permits in an area or 2 permits without going to the Legislature.
A few winters ago I thought the deer had taken a real kicking in my part of Alberta. While shed hunting in the spring I found a number of fresh bone piles and sounded the alarm. A few weeks later I took a drive in the late afternoon and saw a lot of white-tails. Then in fawning season I saw a fair number of dumb yearlings about. The deer must have been wintering better that I thought but out of my sight.
Sometimes a "change" to the regulations or the act is required for an idea like this. And that becomes a difficult issue. If the change has to go to the Legislature it takes a lot of time and preparation. Then to open the deer season would take a similar amount of time and preparation.
The anti hunting people would have a hard time getting the season closed but they may have an easier time stopping it from being opened up again.
Game seasons on a draw are easier to manipulate. You can give out 200 permits in an area or 2 permits without going to the Legislature.
A few winters ago I thought the deer had taken a real kicking in my part of Alberta. While shed hunting in the spring I found a number of fresh bone piles and sounded the alarm. A few weeks later I took a drive in the late afternoon and saw a lot of white-tails. Then in fawning season I saw a fair number of dumb yearlings about. The deer must have been wintering better that I thought but out of my sight.
