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drache

drache

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I was watching a movie that featured an Actor by the name of Tim Barlow was profoundly deaf. Now the cause of that deafness is what's interesting. The actor had stated in an interview that he lost his hearing when testing the "world's first high muzzle velocity rifle for the british army in the 1950's". Tim Barlow left the army in 1969 to persue an acting career.

So what rifle would he be talking about?

(In 2008 he had a transplant of some sort that allowed him to hear)
 
Good question, that.

Could be Hollywood BS, too.

Military .30-06 ran at 2800 in the M2 series, 2700 in the 1906 series, the 7,62x51 pretty much duplicates that and the EM-2 actually ran slower than that.

But then, it depends on what you call a rifle, too. Master Weapon on the Sherman Firefly ran a 17-pound shell at same MV as the '06 and that was not all that far from the 20-pounder (84mm) on the Centurions and they are VERY loud, both of them.

So was the air rifle a friend worked on: sleeved 8-inch firing a golf-ball-sized plastic projectile. Actual running velocity was supplied by a hefty shot of liquid nitrogen into the chamber, the nitrogen then being boiled by about 12 pounds of Cordite. Pressures were rather high but then, so were velocities: plastic ball would go through 4 inches of face-hardened plate. THAT is VELOCITY. Everybody worked on things like that at some time during the Cold War. Idea was to try to understand behaviour of various projectiles in case of a nuclear attack. Whole thing stemmed from the open-air nuclear tests right after WW2, when it was noticed that an A-bomb blast could knock a splinter right through a hydro pole. Some of the videos of the Bomb tests have been released, but none of what was built in labs afterwards in efforts to duplicate some of the effects that were observed after the nuclear tests. He MIGHT have been in on something like that.

More likely is Hollyood BS.

Certainly enough of that to go around, sort of like Global Warming.... one of the worst summers EVER in Western Canada.... and the eco-freaks announce that this summer has been well above norms, thus proving Global Warming. It was 45F last night (8C).... and this is HOT?
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Don' think that one. The little .276 was designed as an assault-rifle round and only turned out about same velocity with a 140 as did the .303 with a 174. It roughly equaled the .30-30 in horsepower but with a far more efficient bullet.

Not what one would really call "the first high-velocity rifle" in ANY military.
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smellie said:
Good question, that.

Could be Hollywood BS, too.
Click to expand...


Normally I would think that but the guy isn't a well known actor and has only a handful of roles and this was all stated during an interview with him. Then factor in the poor guy is 71 years old....

Now NORMAL BS it most certainly can be :D
 
Been three years since I started this thread. Still haven't figured out the rifle used but google-fu wasn't as strong then.

Tim Barlow says 'I was born in 1936. I went to school until 18 and then went in the Army for 15 years. I became an actor in 1969, so for over 40 years I've been an actor.

The army was my first career. I went straight from school to Sandhurst. When I joined the Army, aged 18, I could hear perfectly. Otherwise, I wouldn't have got in in the first place. So I spent 18 months at Sandhurst in the officers' training place.

As an inventory officer I went on a small arm course with rifles and grenades, and they had just brought out a new rifle with a high pitched crack, a high muzzle velocity, and the bullet comes out very fast. They've all got them now, but this was the first one and they were experimenting with it. I went on the range and my ears were ringing afterwards, and next day when the ringing died away, I couldn't hear what people were saying.
Click to expand...
 
I would favour one of the early FN prototypes of the XL8E1 series that became the L1A1.

It could have been an EM2 in one of the later calibres, 7mm 2nd Optimum, 7mm High Velocity, 7mm Compromise or even 7.62x51mm or .30 cal, but unlikely on a normal small arms course.

Regards
TonyE
 
Firing weapons w/o hearing protection causes hearing loss? Who knew? Back in the early FN days we were not issued ear defenders plus we used to wear steel helmets ( a nice noise resonator) on the range. I also shot on rifle teams before ear defenders came into vogue and would have my ears ringing for a day after being on the range. The armoured corps made some concessions to firing noise by issuing little white earplugs, but that was small comfort. Basically anyone who served in that era and presents themselves to DVA with a hearing loss claim seems to get some level of compensation.
 
purple said:
Firing weapons w/o hearing protection causes hearing loss? Who knew? Back in the early FN days we were not issued ear defenders plus we used to wear steel helmets ( a nice noise resonator) on the range. I also shot on rifle teams before ear defenders came into vogue and would have my ears ringing for a day after being on the range. The armoured corps made some concessions to firing noise by issuing little white earplugs, but that was small comfort. Basically anyone who served in that era and presents themselves to DVA with a hearing loss claim seems to get some level of compensation.
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Back in the late 1950's darned near everything was fired without hearing protection. I was introduced to the FN while on a NCO course at London, and went back to the Regiment and conducted some courses on the FN as I was the only one who knew anything about it. We had the rifles, but no Instructors had shown up.

I can remember stuffing some cigarette filters in my ears while firing the 25 Pounder so that it would reduce the noise and bit of a blast from that muzzle brake.
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My partner for Fiream Safety, Hunter Ed. instruction is very hard of hearing. He blames it on firing a Bren in the C.F. for 5 years. Don't know if he ever applied for compensation, I will ask.
Bill
 
I can attest from personal experience that you DO develop hearing loss if you are standing just aft and to the side of the muzzle-brake of a Firefly when some clown mashes the GO button.

If the muzzle blast removes your beret and scorches your forehead, chances are that it is also LOUD.

I rather doubt that an EM-2 would be in the same class, although I am certainly game for a try!
 
This sounds remarkably like a 7.62 x 51, most likely the L1A1. That round and rifle would've been considered "experimental" or at the very least "untried" in the 50s at Sandhurst. That rifle is known for it's report.

Then again, so is the 5.56 NATO. It's an American development, but that doesn't mean Sandhurst couldn't have gotten their hands on a test batch. It's a very loud cartridge with a high MV. Seems to fit the specs of the story, such as they are.
 
purple said:
Firing weapons w/o hearing protection causes hearing loss? Who knew? Back in the early FN days we were not issued ear defenders plus we used to wear steel helmets ( a nice noise resonator) on the range. I also shot on rifle teams before ear defenders came into vogue and would have my ears ringing for a day after being on the range. The armoured corps made some concessions to firing noise by issuing little white earplugs, but that was small comfort. Basically anyone who served in that era and presents themselves to DVA with a hearing loss claim seems to get some level of compensation.
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Amen to that! I have been very successful in a disability award from DVA for loss of hearing and tinnitis.

I've urged old buddies who served at the same time to apply if they suffer hearing loss.
 
smellie said:
Don' think that one. The little .276 was designed as an assault-rifle round and only turned out about same velocity with a 140 as did the .303 with a 174. It roughly equaled the .30-30 in horsepower but with a far more efficient bullet.

Not what one would really call "the first high-velocity rifle" in ANY military.
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Click to expand...

It's possible that the guy was refering to the full size .276 Enfield which was very similar to the .280 Ross.
One load tested gave a velocity of 2800 fps. with a 165 gr. 0.282" bullet. This round was developed in 1909
and was never officially adopted.

Royal Laboratories in Woolwich made ammo with bullet weights ranging from 144-190 gr.
It's possible that the Brits may have played around with this number in the 50's , but who knows?:)
 
Well I have found a bit better quote from him

As an inventory officer I went on a small arm course with rifles and grenades, and they had just brought out a new rifle with a high pitched crack, a high muzzle velocity, and the bullet comes out very fast. They've all got them now, but this was the first one and they were experimenting with it. I went on the range and my ears were ringing afterwards, and next day when the ringing died away, I couldn't hear what people were saying.
Click to expand...

So it might not have been the "world's first high muzzle velocity rifle for the british army in the 1950's". It might have been the British Army's first semi automatic, aka the SLR/L1A1.
 
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TonyE said:
I would favour one of the early FN prototypes of the XL8E1 series that became the L1A1.

It could have been an EM2 in one of the later calibres, 7mm 2nd Optimum, 7mm High Velocity, 7mm Compromise or even 7.62x51mm or .30 cal, but unlikely on a normal small arms course.

Regards
TonyE
Click to expand...

Best answer so far... brits were doing a lot of optimal calibre trials. 6.25mm 6.5mm etc... ended up with the 280 enfield, or 280/30... but then tried to appease the americans who were set on the 7.62x51
 
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