Titegroup for SW M52-2?

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Teac

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Hi All,

since I have now a reloading setup I found it would be time to reactivate my SW M52-2... I have all components on the way but could only find Titegroup powder @ my LGS (I know the to go load is Bullseye but cant get it).

It seems that TG and BE are somewhat similar powders and I dont see why it would not work in the M52 ...

Does anybody have a TG load recommendation? I want to make sure its not loaded too hot but at the same time it has to cycle ...

Teac
 
Teac said:
Hi All,

since I have now a reloading setup I found it would be time to reactivate my SW M52-2... I have all components on the way but could only find Titegroup powder @ my LGS (I know the to go load is Bullseye but cant get it).

It seems that TG and BE are somewhat similar powders and I dont see why it would not work in the M52 ...

Does anybody have a TG load recommendation? I want to make sure its not loaded too hot but at the same time it has to cycle ...

Teac
Click to expand...

I use Bullseye for my M52, settled in at a nice 3.0gr under a Speer HBWC. I had a lot of Titegroup (and Clays), so I tried working up some loads with them for my revolvers. I got horrible results - very large ES, and a huge difference in speed between Berry's and Speer HBWC. I did notice that the Berry's had a very thick skirt, so I'm guessing it takes more pressure to expand them to get a good seal.

I had some cylinders of shots go exceptionally slow as well. One of the experienced PPC guys mentioned that it could be that I left them in the speed loader tray for too long and the Titegroup powder accumulated and stayed up in the hollow base cavity, so was slower to ignite from the primer. I gave all the rest of the rounds a quick shake before I loaded them into the cylinder and got more consistent results. Shouldn't be a problem in an M52, but I've since stocked up on Bullseye so sticking with that for my 38sp HBWC rounds. X-Reload.com usually has stock at pretty good prices if you can't find any locally. No Hazmat fees and very reasonable shipping costs.

Titegroup HBWC.jpg
 

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Berry's specifically states that for their plated 148 gr. HBWC to work properly they have to be driven at over 800 fps which you are going to have a hard time achieving with most Model 52 target loads. I can't believe the low velocities of those Berry's rounds. You seem to have a good idea of what you're doing so I would assume you are putting a good crimp on the rounds to make sure there is sufficient pressure build up in the case.

What powder measure are you using? I found with my Lee Auto Disk that coarse flake powders like Red Dot, Promo and to some degree Clays had a bridging problem when throwing very light loads (under 3 grains) using the disks so in some cases I was not getting a full powder charge. Bullseye grains are much smaller so don't seem to have the same issue with light loads. I have some Titegroup and while I haven't used it yet I seem to recall that it is somewhat coarse grained as well. Coarse grained powders never meter as consistently at the best of times and that might explain some of your variations in velocity.
 
ted_dent said:
Berry's specifically states that for their plated 148 gr. HBWC to work properly they have to be driven at over 800 fps which you are going to have a hard time achieving with most Model 52 target loads. I can't believe the low velocities of those Berry's rounds. You seem to have a good idea of what you're doing so I would assume you are putting a good crimp on the rounds to make sure there is sufficient pressure build up in the case.

What powder measure are you using? I found with my Lee Auto Disk that coarse flake powders like Red Dot, Promo and to some degree Clays had a bridging problem when throwing very light loads (under 3 grains) using the disks so in some cases I was not getting a full powder charge. Bullseye grains are much smaller so don't seem to have the same issue with light loads. I have some Titegroup and while I haven't used it yet I seem to recall that it is somewhat coarse grained as well. Coarse grained powders never meter as consistently at the best of times and that might explain some of your variations in velocity.
Click to expand...

I'm reloading on a Dillon 550 and tried a couple different methods to see if I could get a more consistent drop with Clays. For test batch TB000204-000207 I attached a vibrator to the powder measure. I polished the powder measure bowl to a mirror finish for batches TB000214-000219. The vibration seemed to be more effective, but I've decided to use up my Clays on 45acp, as the powder funnel has a bigger hole in it and seems to meter more consistently.

Titegroup will measure quite well in small charges. I got very good results loading 9mm with it before I switched over to N320.

The Berry's definitely takes a bigger charge to get up to speed. It took 3.6gr of Bullseye to get me to an avg ~780fps with a Berrys HBWC. I was getting good groups with 3.0gr with a Hornady HBWC so that's my standard M52 reload now. I always put on a good crimp, using a Lee FC die set.

M52 HBWC Testing.jpg
 

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because the case volume of 38sp is huge (compared to a 9mm case anyhow), I thought one way to get more consistent ignition of a load using Titegroup would be to us a magnum primer. Didn't have any at that time, so didn't try it. That could be something you can explore if you really want to use Titegroup for this.
 
VanMan said:
I'm reloading on a Dillon 550 and tried a couple different methods to see if I could get a more consistent drop with Clays. For test batch TB000204-000207 I attached a vibrator to the powder measure. I polished the powder measure bowl to a mirror finish for batches TB000214-000219. The vibration seemed to be more effective, but I've decided to use up my Clays on 45acp, as the powder funnel has a bigger hole in it and seems to meter more consistently.

Titegroup will measure quite well in small charges. I got very good results loading 9mm with it before I switched over to N320.

The Berry's definitely takes a bigger charge to get up to speed. It took 3.6gr of Bullseye to get me to an avg ~780fps with a Berrys HBWC. I was getting good groups with 3.0gr with a Hornady HBWC so that's my standard M52 reload now. I always put on a good crimp, using a Lee FC die set.

View attachment 349458
Click to expand...
Looks like it is just a case of the plated Berrys being too hard to properly obturate so you're not getting good bullet expansion with typical 52-2 target load charges. The only real down sides to the Hornady HBWC bullets is that they smoke a little more than plated bullets and you're handling lead bullets rather than copper plated. As long as your range has good ventilation and you're careful with hand washing they're perfectly fine. A good friend of mine who is a high master PPC shooter uses lead HBWC bullets and swears by them.
 
It turns out its easy to mail order powder so I just ordered a container of bullseye. It seems like nobody likes titegroup
 
TiteGroup----
In my 38 sp and +P, and 9mm, and 357 mag, and 45acp
It's like frank's red hot sauce; I use that sh*t in everything!
LOL
 
3.2 grains of Win 231 or HP38 (same powder these days) under a 148 grain HBWC (Speer or Remington are best, but there are others, hard to find) fired by a Federal SP primer. Works and is super accurate in a Model 52. And don't forget a light taper crimp.

Happy reloading.

Glockenspiel
 
Last edited:
3.0 Titegroup with 148 Hornady and 3D 148gr HBWC.
3D was bought out by Hornady.
Early commercial version M52 with no dashes and no grooves for weights.
 
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