Titegroup too hot?

Melnibonean

Melnibonean

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I was looking at switching from W231 to Titegroup (I have a lot of it) for .45ACP and .40S&W and came across some posts on the internet saying Titegroup burns too hot and too quickly and causes the lead from the base of the bullet to smoke/melt, resulting in leading of the barrel and sooty smoke on the brass.

Others have said that if loaded to near max, the fouling is eliminated.

Anyone else heard of this? Anyone else load for these 2 calibers with Titegroup? What have been your experiences?
 
Currently using it in .40 cal, behind Berry 180 gr projectiles,no problems

Gonna try it out shortly on 9 mm, behind Berry triple plated, 124 gr projies
 
I use Tightgroup with jacketed, plated and lead bullets, I started using it because I couldn't find 231 at that time. "Some" competitive shooters said they didn't like Titegroup and it burned hotter and the myth was born. "BUT" it is very close in burning rate to Bullseye that was used in cast bullet target loads.

Below is a Titegroup load I use in my 5 inch model 29 .44 magnum, please look at the green and purple dotted lines below. The green line is 95% of the powder being burnt and the purple line is all-burnt. This load tames the .44 and you can shoot them all day long, I also use 5.0 grains with my cast bullets for even lighter loading without any problem. The Speer manual shows 7.9 to 9.0 grains of Titegroup in their short barrel load data for the .44 magnum and 200 grain jacketed bullets.

fastpowder_zps6bd696c6.jpg


The more powder you put in the case the higher the chamber pressure and peak flame temperature will be. Some of the competitive shooters were using Titegroup and pushing their 9mm loads to reach a "Major" load category and their loads were on the warm side and a slower burning powder would be a better choice.

Below is a 231 load at the same velocity as the Titegroup load above, the chamber pressure is lower and the peak flame temperature is also lower. "BUT" now notice where the green and purple 95% and 100% of powder burnt lines are now located. The secret to using any fast burning powder is not is to not try and shoot "HOT" high pressure loads. Bottom line, your looking for cheap practice loads and if you need to shoot a Tyrannosaurus Rex then pick a slower burning powder.

44231_zps745df461.jpg


On the flip side if I loaded a maximum load of 296 in my 5 inch barrel .44 for shooting a Tyrannosaurus Rex the green and purple line would not be seen on the chart and I would need to carry a fire extinguisher with me if I shot the .44 in the woods. :rolleyes: (unburnt powder, muzzle blast humor)

I also use Titegroup and 231 in my Glock .40 S&W and you do not see the author saying anything about Titegroup burning too hot below. ;)

Make Right With a “.40 Lite”
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/ammunition_40lite_091806/

40SampW001_zpsfc7e7b54.jpg
 
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Those post on the internet are daft. Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast, not the heat of the powder used. Soot on the case is usually caused by too light a load that doesn't make the case expand enough to seal the chamber.
 
Melnibonean said:
I was looking at switching from W231 to Titegroup (I have a lot of it) for .45ACP and .40S&W and came across some posts on the internet saying Titegroup burns too hot and too quickly and causes the lead from the base of the bullet to ... melt, resulting in leading of the barrel...
Click to expand...


sunray said:
Those post on the internet are daft. Leading is caused by trying to drive a cast bullet too fast.
Click to expand...


I don't know about that, sunray. A friend of mine was loading cast lead bullets with Titegroup in .40 S&W to Major PF velocities and was getting terrible leading in his barrel (STI Executive). He read the same thing as the OP did ,also on the internet, and switched to HS-6 loading to similar velocities/PF and the leading problem went away.
 
HOWDY; 45 ACP lead and copper washed are fine here, as is 38 lite cowboy loads. One load of 357 and 125 grain lead bullets did lead . Just a bad combination, not a powder issue.
 
I use it for 9mm, .45ACP and .44 Rem MAG. Used it almost exclusively on those calibre's. Always shoots good. Not anymore dirty than anything else I've shot.

~Bill
 
I consider Titegroup the cleanest pistol powder I've ever used. I have used it in thousands of light cowboy .38 loads. Because of, sometimes work commitments, but more often just plain laziness, I've went thru a couple thou rounds between cleanings...can't do that with any other powder I've used.
 
I`ve used Titegroup in my 40`s and a Hk 45, no problems, cast or jacketed, but in my 2 CZ shadows, a TUMBLING DISASTER!! Jacketed no problem. I`ve gone as high as .357... still tumble, changed crimp... no good. Buddy says try these, 130 grain cast at .356 diameter. Absolutely beautiful, no tumble, accurate, as it should be with a CZ. The difference... loaded with 4756 4.4grains.
I DON`T GET IT!
 
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