Now I'm just wondering why you should use a compression plug to compress your BP and not the bullet ? When I load my cases I compress the powder with the bullet in my 45-70 and have won my share of events I do the same with my 38-55 and shot a 50 ### at this years rondy in Lethbridge .I have been thinking of buying one Not looking to start an argument just looking for answers as I have read articles that say you should use a plug not the bullet but they never say why.
To compress or not to compress with bullet vrs. compression plug
- Thread starter DEZ
- Start date
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Basically its just to make sure that you aren't mashing or distorting the bullet as I understand it.
Hey Dez;
The need to compress BP in the 70 and 55 is highly over-rated...especially a heavy compression. Some compression is important, but there is no need to exert excessive pressure to simply seat the bullet. If you need the wife to come help you seat bullets in the case in order to get good compression you are doing it wrong!!!! Forget about using a 10 ton hydraulic press for seating bullets as well!!!
Here is a bit of a hint...as partially referred to on a thread about shooting the trapdoor 45-70. Do a side by side comparison of a loaded round you are currently using with a bullet to see where the base ends up...measure this if you would like. Then charge an un-primed sized case with the load you use, measure the depth of the powder in the case then compare the two. If you see a 1/4" or more difference then you may have a bullet deformation issue. Experiment with overall length or reduced powder charge. Another option is to use a drop tube, which will compact the powder in the case though you should do the previous test over again and note the difference. I have experimented with 24" and 36" drop tubes and actually did see a difference, though not dramatic. Beside this, believing that bullet seating will consistently compress powder is fallacy. I have confirmed this by pulling a bullet on a loaded 45-70 to see how compressed the powder is. The first 5/-16" was compressed and partially crushed the balance was loose powder in the base of the case. Using the drop tube eliminated this.
However...if you are currently loading your rounds with no deformation and accuracy is acceptable, then don't worry about it!!! The system you are using is working and producing good consistent accuracy, no need to fook with it.
I used to hear guys babble on about how accurate their gun is with this bullet or that bullet and the $300 mold they had have specially made for their gun. Funny thing is, these guys never placed in any match I shot against them in. They always had one excuse or another, a gnat landed on the barrel just as the shot went of or they passed wind at the same time, the trigger got messed with, or the sights were changed, the range was not right...yada, yada, yada.
The key thing is to follow the K.I.S.S. principle...you know what it means. Tell those "self proclaimed" experts all the silly crap you did to make your gun shoot. Make up some wild stories about mining your own lead, mixing ffg with atomized martian dust, making bullet lube out of earwax and ground up yak hoofs and tell them how great it works. They will swallow it up like nuts...or they will think you are nuts.
Cheers
The need to compress BP in the 70 and 55 is highly over-rated...especially a heavy compression. Some compression is important, but there is no need to exert excessive pressure to simply seat the bullet. If you need the wife to come help you seat bullets in the case in order to get good compression you are doing it wrong!!!! Forget about using a 10 ton hydraulic press for seating bullets as well!!!
Here is a bit of a hint...as partially referred to on a thread about shooting the trapdoor 45-70. Do a side by side comparison of a loaded round you are currently using with a bullet to see where the base ends up...measure this if you would like. Then charge an un-primed sized case with the load you use, measure the depth of the powder in the case then compare the two. If you see a 1/4" or more difference then you may have a bullet deformation issue. Experiment with overall length or reduced powder charge. Another option is to use a drop tube, which will compact the powder in the case though you should do the previous test over again and note the difference. I have experimented with 24" and 36" drop tubes and actually did see a difference, though not dramatic. Beside this, believing that bullet seating will consistently compress powder is fallacy. I have confirmed this by pulling a bullet on a loaded 45-70 to see how compressed the powder is. The first 5/-16" was compressed and partially crushed the balance was loose powder in the base of the case. Using the drop tube eliminated this.
However...if you are currently loading your rounds with no deformation and accuracy is acceptable, then don't worry about it!!! The system you are using is working and producing good consistent accuracy, no need to fook with it.
I used to hear guys babble on about how accurate their gun is with this bullet or that bullet and the $300 mold they had have specially made for their gun. Funny thing is, these guys never placed in any match I shot against them in. They always had one excuse or another, a gnat landed on the barrel just as the shot went of or they passed wind at the same time, the trigger got messed with, or the sights were changed, the range was not right...yada, yada, yada.
The key thing is to follow the K.I.S.S. principle...you know what it means. Tell those "self proclaimed" experts all the silly crap you did to make your gun shoot. Make up some wild stories about mining your own lead, mixing ffg with atomized martian dust, making bullet lube out of earwax and ground up yak hoofs and tell them how great it works. They will swallow it up like nuts...or they will think you are nuts.
Cheers
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I would certainly play with compression, but like others have said if you use the bullet to compress, even a little, it will distort and if it doesn't, your bullet is way to hard!!!! The best compression die is free!!!!! For the 45/70 use the expander from your .44, .44/40, .45 Colt's dies in the 45/70 expander die. Set it to give whatever amount of compression you need...set it....and forget it!!!(everyone say it together) And your welcome, I just saved you some money!!!
Oh and Alonzo: Where are you getting your ground up yak's hooves from??
Oh and Alonzo: Where are you getting your ground up yak's hooves from??
HEY thanks for all the info I will experiment with compression as I,m playing around with my long range load and the bullet distortion makes sense my normal target loades don,t compress too much as it doesn,t take earth shaking shoulder pounding velocity to to punch neat holes in paper but for my silhouette loads I,m hoping to push it abit more and still retain acurracy as I think I can do better than 15 hits thats my hope and with this weather if I can find a wind free day its out in the country I go . PS Alonzo most people think I'm a little off the bubble anyway MAD AS A MED.HATTER
Walmart has it in cosmetics aisle next to the Eye of Newt extract!!
BTW, the "Atomized Martian Dust" is found every two months when the mother ship drops off my Rumulan Ale!!!
I have been shooting them at Lethbridge they have one every year I wanted to go to the one in Denelda if thats how you spell it up by Red Deer but they were cancelled . The Lethbridge shoot is hard as you end up shooting into the sun in the afternoon but its informal and very fun .And on the second day if you can stick around they have a 22lr silhouette match for fun. Are friend Vagrant Viking is from there
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Thanks for the heads-up! Might have to consider that.
The advice from Alonzo and Karl is consistent with my experience compressing FFg Goex in my 45-90. About .017" seems to be best for me. I don't resize my brass so I compress with the Lee compression ram after using my 24" drop tube or an electric engraving pencil to settle the powder. I seat my bullets using my fingers only. Seems to be working well even though DEZ kicked my butt at Lethbridge last Sept. My results have been more consistent and predictable since I switched to using the ram rather than pressing on the bullet itself.
I ordered a compression plug from buffalo arms as I needed a couple other things and I will play with it . On a side note shot it on the weekend at 1000yrds in a river coulee bottom I have access to and managed to hit a 2foot by 2foot rock and was impressed with the new bullet also made me and my friend laugh as you could count 1-2-3-Hit I will take pics next time I'm out there practicing as the dirt cliff the rock is in lets you see your misses also it took me about 6rnds to hit it .
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vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Nice shooting! Nice to have a good place like that to play too as they are harder and harder to find these days.
Makes me remember I really have to get serious and do same casting soon. Sounds like Lethbridge is going to be doing another long range shoot May long weekend so better get some shells made.
Makes me remember I really have to get serious and do same casting soon. Sounds like Lethbridge is going to be doing another long range shoot May long weekend so better get some shells made.
