To what extent does brass affect consistency and accuracy?

pacobillie

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I am by no means a reloading expert. I use mostly used brass. Some of it is of different brands. For example, my 6.5 X 55 brass is a mixed bag of R&P and Winchester brass.

Should I be reloading only one brand of brass? How much will shooting a mixed bag of cases affect accuracy, assuming all else (powder, primer, COAL and load) is the same?
 
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Different case capacity and pressure comes to mind............stick with one brand and work out a load...................JMO............Harold
 
If you load with random pieces of brass, you will have inconsistencies in your accuracy. If you load with cases separated by make and shots fired ( eg; once fired, twice fired) things will be more consistent.


Any brass will work, but its nice to have a few hundred pieces of similar brass to both work up your load, and to have enough remaining for shooting/hunting needs.
 
Sort them and perform your own test. It's the only way to know. I have found some brass matches up fine with others, and some that is best on it's own, and shoot consistently differently. Still groups well, but not with the others.
 
For 100 yards it probably won't matter. But for real consistancy at longer ranges everything you can control as far as the quality goes should be the same.
 
Not that important but I've started using Lapua brass...

Not much according to an article in Hodgdon Reloading Guide 2011.
What is most critical is bullet seating depth and powder charge accuracy.
Turning neck can increase accuracy of an already accurate load by 25%.
Weighing cases, uniformizing primer holes, cleaning primers holes is not really effective according to the article.

I'm still stop using Hornady brass and start buying Lapua Match brass nonetheless.

Alex
 
different brass

The thing that gives accuracy a problem is inconsistency. I was a fanatic about not mixing manufacturers. Especially when shooting Hunter Bench Rest.

Now, I mostly just shoot loads designed around hunting needs. I'm still an accuracy fanatic though. Once bitten, always addicted. I tend to go overboard as to my realistic needs.

I did extensive testing with an HBR in 308 Win with a Hart Barrel and 1-15 twist rate. The rifle was built by Nobby Uno and shot like a dream, as long as the bullets didn't weigh more than 150 grains. I positively loved Randy Robinette's 135 grain flat base spitzers.

I mixed up all sorts of brass to see if there was any real difference in accuracy out to 300 yds. The answer is "YES". There was a difference but not for the reasons most people think. If you've ever had anything to do with a bench rest or F class rifle you will understand that everything possible is done to remove variables from the rifles, then the cartridge case and bullets are next. Powders are bought in canisters of 7-8 pounds and bullets are bought in 1000 lots or more. Primers are usually some sort of bench rest type, usually picked for their consistent ignition.

When a lot of brass cases was bought, it was always sorted by weight. The batches were usually in 2 grain increments. Then, they had their primer holes deburred, drilled out to the same size. The batch of cases that contained the most cases was usually chosen as the competition lot. Then, the batches on either side were weighed again to find those within .5 grains of the control weights. The necks were pressed over a mandrel in a lathe and turned to give .002 in clearance in the chamber. Remember, this is all a controled condition match.

This isn't as bad as it sounds. It only needs to be done once and all of the sizing afterwards is neck sizing only on an arbor press, in Wilson neck dies with interchangeable collars. Because of the tight chambers tolerances, stretch is almost non existent.

The one thing that soon became obvious, is that cases from the same manufacturer varied in weight from lot to lot. Therefore, capacities were different. I found that as long as the cases wieghed the same, after neck turning, the internal capacities were close enough not to make any accuracy difference, no matter which brand of case was being used or mixed together.

The thing I found was that case capacity made a big enough difference to lose a match, not who manufactured the case. With an off the shelf hunting/varmit rifle, I seriously doubt there would be any noticeable difference as long as pressures were relatively consistent. After all is said and done, a consistent group is far superior when hunting than one which is a tack driver under conrtolled conditions. Temperature is also a killer. In my HBR rifles, I had special loads for different temps as well as high and low humidity. The humidity loads were mostly just anal thinking as it would only add or subtract 1/10 grain from the load being used.
 
For 100 yards it probably won't matter. But for real consistancy at longer ranges everything you can control as far as the quality goes should be the same.

This. For most typical hunting applications, the brass you use will not matter one iota. If small groups are your interest, the brass is one more variable to eliminate.

I guess bearhunter said the same thing, I just gave the reader's digest version....;):)
 
Thanks for the answers. I will sort my brass by brand and weight, and see how it affects group size. I will report back when done.
 
I found Rem brass harder AKA brittle with less case capacity than say Fed or Win.It didn't hold up to repeated loading. Win + Fed brass are close enough to not matter.Years ago when I first began reloading I purchased 100 /.270 Win brass new and loaded it for 10 years before the necks began cracking .Range brass is free and works fine.I have pails of it in most calibers................Harold
 
Every time i go to the range i pick up some or ask peoples for them majority of the shooters even put them back in the box and bring them to me, at home i have 8 plastic 5 gallons (they are almost full ) and i just put them by caliber, i sorted them out out when i need... JP.
 
Thanks for the answers. I will sort my brass by brand and weight, and see how it affects group size. I will report back when done.

What is your application?

For some kinds of competitive shooting (benchrest, F-Class, and long range fullbore target rifle) it matters.

For many applications it almost doesn't matter at all. This is not meant to encourage sloppiness in loading practices, just a comment to point out that there are quite a few things in the accuracy equation that come before brass quality or brass consistency. I wouldn't lose sleep over brass quality unless you are looking for honest sub-half-moa results at 100 yards, in which case still wouldn't bother unless you already have done the following:

- match barrel
- properly bedded action
- custom action, or true or blueprint factory action (optional but helpful)
- match bullets

Even then, you would be surprised how good you can shoot with crap brass but all of those other things done right.
 
What is your application?

For some kinds of competitive shooting (benchrest, F-Class, and long range fullbore target rifle) it matters.

For many applications it almost doesn't matter at all. This is not meant to encourage sloppiness in loading practices, just a comment to point out that there are quite a few things in the accuracy equation that come before brass quality or brass consistency. I wouldn't lose sleep over brass quality unless you are looking for honest sub-half-moa results at 100 yards, in which case still wouldn't bother unless you already have done the following:

- match barrel
- properly bedded action
- custom action, or true or blueprint factory action (optional but helpful)
- match bullets

Even then, you would be surprised how good you can shoot with crap brass but all of those other things done right.

The application is recreational shooting and hunting. I am just trying to get the best performance out of my various rifles. I will not get anal about it, but at least sorting the brass out by brand should lead to better consistency.
 
The application is recreational shooting and hunting. I am just trying to get the best performance out of my various rifles. I will not get anal about it, but at least sorting the brass out by brand should lead to better consistency.

Sorting brass by brand, lot #, # firings, grouping it into different "bins" according to weight etc, will never hurt your accuracy. It's just that oftentimes (including in my opinion this case but who can ever know these things for sure?) it will be a "waste of time" though even that is perhaps not entirely true; if you have made your ammo very carefully, and know it, this can sometimes help your shooting.

If you feel like an experiment, when you are picking through your brass see if you can find some of the most mismatched pieces (for example, the very heaviest and very lightest case). Mark them and put them aside. When you have gotten a good load figured out for your rifle, load that load into these "special bad brass". Then when you are out testing, in good conditions, fire a group with your very best ammo and see how it does; then fire these two "special bad" pieces of brass and see where they go. If they go significantly out of the group, congratulate yourself for having spent your time well; if they go into the group, that's also an interesting result because perhaps you don't need to spend so much time the next time.

Enjoy loading and getting the best performance you can out of your rifles, it sure is rewarding when it works!
 
Much good advice has been dispensed, but answer the question yourself...

Load up 5 rounds or so from each brand of brass and shoot side-by-side groups on identical targets.

If the group sizes or group LOCATIONS are different, well, now you know.

I compete in F-Class which is a 300-1000 yard sport trying to keep under 5" at 1000 yards, and I am fanatical about consistency. I sort, weigh and trim all brass, and it is all Lapua brass. BUT.... I am also an avid varmint hunter and I use absolutely stock factory rifles, and my loads are volume dumped into brass from three different makers. Plenty good enough for watching gophers blow up. If I miss, I take another shot or wait for another gopher. Like is too short to get anal over hunting ammo.
 
I cleaned and sorted out my brass by case brand and weighted it. It turns out that the Remington cases are significantly lighter than the Winchesters and the Federals. Within a brand, case weight is fairly consistent.
Average weight for a Remington case is 171 grains, versus 183 grains for a Winchester. Federals are close to the Winchesters in weight.


Logically, this means that the Remingtons are thinner and thus have a larger inner volume, which should translate to lower pressures; all things being equal.

Now I have to test the theory at the range, and see whether the groups will be better if I shoot cartridges made from cases that are all of the same brand.

Thanks for all the input.
 
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