Too Much for an RC K98

mtokunaga

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Hi all,

I am relatively new to collecting Milsurp firearms, so I have a quick question. I found a K98 that is in pretty good shape, but it is an RC. As such, some parts have been electro-penciled, and the swats have been peened out. To be honest, I am interested in it because it seems to be a nice starter firearm of the K98 variety, though obviously the collectibility of it is in doubt.

As it is, I bought it anyway, because of the perceived history I like to think it has, and the fact that it is accessible to me so far. I am worried I paid a bit too much for it, though, as I paid $350.

Let me know...did I pay too much, or is that at least in the ballpark?

Thanks...
 
Let me be the first to say that I believe you did just fine. The Russian capture K98s, as well as the Yugo and Czech K98s, are chalk full of history. The RCs fascinate me, captured in the Eastern Front, stored for years and rearsenaled and kept for possible use during the Cold War. That's alot of history you just bought for $350...now send us some pics!
Joe:)
 
As long as the rifle is in suitable condition I don't think $350 is overly expensive. Especially if the bore is in nice condition.

Sure it might no longer be in factory original condition, but as Joe said, you've still got a righteous WWII battle rifle, that was possibly even used in combat. I've been thinking of picking up an RC of my own, if I could fid one for a bit cheaper, just to have another K98k to play with.

Also, now that you've whet out appetite you'll need to update with pics ;)
 
$350 is a good bit less than the $400 they retailed for last year - none are currently offered for sale in Canada as far as I'm aware.
 
Mauser K98 RC

I have been reading about your Mauser purchase Mtokunaga, and I am curious about the RC designation. I have a number of Mausers, and some are sanitized what markings do I look for on an RC rifle? Or is it the absence of markings I should be looking for?
Interesting information. And nice start to your Mauser, collection Mtokunaga. I have had many collections over the years and I collected guns that were of little value to collectors before they became hot items. If you don't have much money and an interest in firearms go for the ones that collectors don't go after. I did it with commonwealth and German training rifles years ago and collected 29 variations before they became hot items. I picked up No7's and C No7's for $100 and sold them a few years later for much more. This is just an example, of my experiences.
Good Hunting

Albayo
 
Al,

Russian Capture K98k's all share similar traits. The are all WW2 era German Karabiners (though some are former Gew98's the Nazis had converted to K98k spec - rare though!). Most have matching receiver and barrel.

When the Russians came into these guns they stockpiled them and promptly began doing other more important things like rebuilding their cities, etc. Many RC rifles sat for month or even years exposed to the elements. By the late 1940's, many of these rifles were in an advanced state of deterioration, while some remained like new.

In true Russian style, a collossal public make-work project was undertaken. The ENTIRE inventory of German small arms then in Russian posession (roughly half the total wartime output of Nazi Germany's arms production) was ordered to undergo refurbishment and as many useable arms as possible to be made ready. Why? Russia was paranoid. The Cold War was freezing over and Russia feared invasion from the West. Also, it was a cheap source of arms they could export to allies in North Korea, Cuba, VietNam, and every other wanna-be commi armpit of the world without depleting their "front line" weapons stockpiles.

The Russians took all their K98k's, and totally disassembled them except for the barrel. Bores were inspected and those found to be acceptable (ie, some pitting OK - so long as it's still safely shootable, much like with their refurbed Mosins) were set aside. Those that were deemed too far gone were recycled into steel for tractor parts or Order of Lennin medals, or whatever.

The small parts were all hot-dip reblued. Rusty parts were wire brushed or sandblasted first. These were placed indiscriminately in bins. The stocks were also inspected for serviceability. Those deemed acceptable were retained, those unacceptable were burned.

When the rifles were re-assembled no effort was made to match parts. A new (used) bolt was assembled and fitted to the receiver and the whole affair was assembled into a rifle from the binned parts. When done, most parts were electropencilled with the rifle's serial number and a flat was sanded on the left side of the wood stock (think big belt sander and half-drunk worker). The rifle's serial number was stamped there running parallel to the rifle's bore line. (Yugos are stamped perpendicular, for comparrison)

Once complete, the whole rifle was generally painted in cheap shellac as a preservative agent - these are often not cosmolened for some reason - crated up and sent to war reserve, especially in the frontier states like Ukraine (which stored them in underground "nuclear proof" depleted salt mines). Today, cash strapped former Soviet states are all too happy to sell these to us.

It's difficult to say what percentage of captured arms survived the rebuild programs, but I'd imagine maybe half (or less) would be a good guess. Many of these arms sat out in the open for LONG periods of time before being rebuilt, so attirtion due to the elements was probably a factor.

It's also wrong to assume that RC's are, in fact, "captures". At any given moment, less than 2 million Nazi troops would have served on the Russian front. Not all would have had K98K's. Over 14 Million K98k's were built and most experts agree that somewhere around 7 million likely ended up in Russian hands after the war. Throughout the whole war, it's doubtful a full 7 million K98k's travelled to east Prussia and beyond.

When Nazi Germany surrendered to the Allies, the Whermacht assembled at depots all over Europe and turned in their arms. Additionally, government arms stockpiles and factories were captured and divied up by the victorious armies. At hostilities cessation, every Mauser weapon in the future East Germany (and all points east) would have become what we think of as an "RC K98k". Public ownership of guns in the USSR was banned as well. So whether a rifle was taken from a dead private in 1944 Minsk or if the NKVD knocked on a door in Berlin in 1947 and confiscated the arm from a retired volkspolitzei prison guard, it still ended up in the stocks of RC mausers. In fact, it's safe to say the MAJORITY of such guns are likely NOT battlefield captures.

I trust that helps explain a little?
 
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Thanks all for your input...I feel pretty good about the purchase!

I have pics, but I will have to find a place to host them. As soon as I do that, I will post some...

Thanks again!
 
i've seen a lot of adverts on the 'net calling the rust "blood pitting". yeah right. like claven said, how long where they exposed to the elements for.

regardless of them being "parts" guns, they are solid units.
 
Agreed - they are solid and very usable firearms, but certainly NOT on the order of a vet bringback, or even some of the better grade Yugo refurbs.

I imagine they are worth what people pay for them, but likely their greatest contribution to K98k collecting is they wet the appetites of collectors to own a real deal non-refurb, hence driving the price of the best K98k examples to astronomical levels in recent years.

PS: since this comes up from time to time, someone should sticky my RC K98k commentary (or something similar) or move it to the MKB for posterity. It drives me nuts when people rehash the blood pitting or Russian captured "German battelfied refurb" fallacies...
 
Oh, and also, the K98k's from Mitchell's Mausers (not the M48's) are actually RC K98k's. Mitchells buys crates of them and then matches up reandom parts for waffen markings according to the BBOTW lists. They then also match serials where possible and scrub and restamp when not possible, their parts to make up "correct" rifles. They sell them without disclosing this too. Caveat Emptor. There are other dealers doing similar things in the USA (Miltech comes to mind), though I've not seen it here in Canada - yet.
 
You should've seen the bubba work that is going on today on the stashed RC mausers...:puke:

They sell the guns to civilians in Russia, but before they 'deaccurize' them by replacing the sights with some el-cheapo mosin style front and rear sights. Molotov plant is doing that as far as I know.
 
The good news is that there are far more RC mausers than all the willing buyers out ther in Russia where it is still very hard to own a gun. :)

Most will be spared that fate.

I can tell you though, that I've paid more than the asking price of a whole RC rifle before just to get the right K98 receiver to send off and be converted to a work of art. :)

In the next week or so, I'll post pics of a .35 Whelen built on a matching 1909 Argentine action I bout last year (look in the sporting arms Forum in a week if interested). My gunmaker is just putting the finishing touches on stock this week. (don't worry - I bought a poorly done sporter to scrap for the action - not a collectible milsurp :) )

I also just recently paid $200 for a matching 1939 ERMAWERKE K98k receiver with swastikas and all which will some day be a 7x57 tree stand rifle in a mannlicher style stock. It was bought out of a display case as just an action - no bubba on my hands!

There will be some guys though who will buy inexpensive RC's just for the excellent actions on the pre-1942 (or so) made guns. Just wait and see. It already happens alot in the USA.
 
It's easier than here. There are no prohibs in the long gun sector except for full auto, mag capacity is 10 (which does not require alterations to most firearms). No restricted, no ATT crap etc. You have to wait for 5 years before you can get rifled license since you get your first shotgun license, that's it.
 
svt-40 said:
It's easier than here.......You have to wait for 5 years before you can get rifled license since you get your first shotgun license, that's it.

that is not easy..........
 
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