Too much recoil...

There are two correct forms when shooting prone, other than the choices of military and Olympic prone. The first is when the forend of the rifle is supported by the non-shooting hand, or when an artificial rest is used with the support hand acting as a cushion between the forend and the rest. Through the necessity of the supporting arm being placed in a forward position, the body is out of line with the barrel. But when the rifle is supported on a bi-pod, a sandbag, or even a back-pack, and the support hand is placed under the butt, providing support and an elevation adjustment to the rifle, the line of the barrel should be inline with the inside of the leg on the shooting side. It matters not if the rifle is a .223, a .338 Lapua, or a .50 BMG. In this position, recoil is straight back. The rifle is not kicked out of line with the target, so the target can be rapidly reacquired for a follow-up shot.

Part of the secret to establishing the correct prone position is by first establishing your natural point of aim. Without first establishing your natural point of aim, with the rifle supported by the non-shooting hand, you cannot build a bridge of bone between the ground and the forend of the rifle, because the muscles of the arm must tense in order to bring the sights to bear on the target. In the big game hunting scenario, with a sporter weight rifle, I wouldn't favor an under the butt position for my support hand, preferring instead to support and cushion the forend, or to stabilize the bi-pod, should there be one. But with a heavy barrel rifle using an artificial rest, that is supported under the butt by the non-shooting hand, natural point of aim ensures that the body is not under strain which results in tremors being transmitted to the rifle, and recoil is mitigated by the straight line mass of your entire body which lies directly behind the rifle.

When shooting sporter weight rifles prone, I can hold 5 rounds of .375 Ultra, by which time I must reload anyway, and 3 rounds of .416 Rigby, the 4th round is always a bit unpleasant. Thus for me, the .416 Rigby represents the most powerful rifle that I can use as a general purpose rifle. A significant step up would be a .460 Weatherby, which has the flat trajectory necessary to be utilized as a general purpose rifle, but I doubt very much that I could manage a .460 Weatherby for 2 rounds prone. I know that I have no interest in trying, so for me, the .460 is a niche rifle, that could only be fired off hand or from high supported positions like sitting or kneeling.
 
Ardent said:
I pull it in... lean in... get behind it... and take control of it... a good stance... left foot forward... right back to support... left knee bent slightly... slightly bent right knee....
Click to expand...

Do the "Hokey Pokey" and shake it all about....
 
Ardent said:
Probably easier in a picture, indeed. Before you know it, you don't think about setting up, like anything with practice it just happens.
Click to expand...

Just struck me as comical... weird sense of humour... I agree with your recoil control assessment... was plugging away with my .45/120 today... that gets your attention... and that was after five trips around the skeet range, 60 rounds of .308, 60 rounds of 7X57, and 20 rounds of .350 RM... recoil can have a cumulative effect...
 
Observe the stock closely in it's relation between the centerline of bore between some high end classics such as these
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/products/firearms/rifles.aspx?price=$10,000+or+more


And your typical sporting rifles such as these
http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/products/firearms/rifles.aspx?price=$700+to+$900


Big bore rifles in dangerous game suitable calibers used to be built to rise when fired expending energy as the barrel rose high to the sky much as old western single an double actions flip up the muzzle when fired "properly", I myself have been guilty of "the death grip" on big boomers and trying to keep the bore below the horizon during recoil only to be pounded into submission and one reason I posted the link above is the author is spot on yet scatterd in making his point...

Some (most) rifles transfer all the recoil straight back into the shooter, other stocks are designed to make the rifle rise in a controlled fashion (tho the guy behind the triggers opinion may differ) allowing the energy of recoil to be in part used up by forcing a 10+ pound rifle not only backwards but upwards... Pretty smart IMHO yet counter to what a lot of us are engrained with from the beginning when we are told to put the rifle in a magic spot in the shoulder and hang on tight so it won't fly out of your hands and if you complain about the kick obviously your manhood is suddenly in question... From then on we learn in our own way how to tolerate recoil but seldom are we educated on what is happening during recoil and how to let the firearm do what it was designed to do, as always our reaction is to grip it harder and fight it till it gives in and transfers ever last ounce of energy to your shoulder and collar bone and some rather delicate muscles.

Of course muzzle rise on a scoped big bore is asking for a healthy bite but most rifles that exceed 60ft Lb's of recoil energy are often not found wearing a scope anyway...


I find the whole technique of dealing with recoil very interesting...
 
hoytcanon said:
Just struck me as comical... weird sense of humour... I agree with your recoil control assessment... was plugging away with my .45/120 today... that gets your attention... and that was after five trips around the skeet range, 60 rounds of .308, 60 rounds of 7X57, and 20 rounds of .350 RM... recoil can have a cumulative effect...
Click to expand...

Can understand completely, some things are not meant for words. :)
 
Ardent said:
Probably easier in a picture, indeed. Before you know it, you don't think about setting up, like anything with practice it just happens.
Click to expand...

What I do is my left hand farther forward than normal on light recoilers, which which on most rifles puts my hand at the end of fore-end with a bit of bend in the elbow. This helps get my weak left hand wrapped around the barrel instead of just pinching the wood, and sets up some muscle tension against my shoulder without feeling like I'm pulling on it. I keep my right elbow lower than a classic offhand position because that causes the muscle to bunch up a bit for padding. For foot position I step with my left foot toward the target , lift my right foot slightly then settle back letting the right foot find its natural position and have a tiny bend in each knee. The foot positioning is exactly the same as I'll set up for wing-shooting, and I try to have approximately the same weight on each foot. The muscle tension from the forward hand helps lock everything together through recoil, and also serves to keep the gunmount locked together while working the bolt. I assume that anything that needs to be hit that hard will likely need to get hit more than once.
 
Dogleg said:
What I do is my left hand farther forward than normal on light recoilers, which which on most rifles puts my hand at the end of fore-end with a bit of bend in the elbow. This helps get my weak left hand wrapped around the barrel instead of just pinching the wood, and sets up some muscle tension against my shoulder without feeling like I'm pulling on it. I keep my right elbow lower than a classic offhand position because that causes the muscle to bunch up a bit for padding. For foot position I step with my left foot toward the target , lift my right foot slightly then settle back letting the right foot find its natural position and have a tiny bend in each knee. The foot positioning is exactly the same as I'll set up for wing-shooting, and I try to have approximately the same weight on each foot. The muscle tension from the forward hand helps lock everything together through recoil, and also serves to keep the gunmount locked together while working the bolt. I assume that anything that needs to be hit that hard will likely need to get hit more than once.
Click to expand...

You've put it much better than I can clearly, I also subscribe to substantial purchase on the fore end. I have awkwardly large palms and even at the receiver ring end up getting my thumb in my sight picture more often than I'd like, you'll notice me trying to keep it held alongside the barrel rather than over and can see me fidget with it in that video. I grip far back at the ring just because it offers the most grip, and certainly agree with the principle you describe on the importance of controlling the front end and keeping comfortable tension on it.

This is my preferred fore grip on the heaviest recoiling gun I've enjoyed, stickhunter's .505 RSM.

 
I find the correct trap shooters stance is also the correct stance for the heavies........left foot forward etc and lean into the shot and grip your forend for control for your second shot............the trap stance also works for moving targets with a heavy caliber where all turning is done at the waist and the gun grip and stance is not compromised. Quick follow up shots such as a double affords means you must control the recoil as much as humanly possible and not let your muzzles fly skyward or the entire advantage of a double is lost.
 
Dogleg said:
What I do is my left hand farther forward than normal on light recoilers, which which on most rifles puts my hand at the end of fore-end with a bit of bend in the elbow. This helps get my weak left hand wrapped around the barrel instead of just pinching the wood, and sets up some muscle tension against my shoulder without feeling like I'm pulling on it. I keep my right elbow lower than a classic offhand position because that causes the muscle to bunch up a bit for padding. For foot position I step with my left foot toward the target , lift my right foot slightly then settle back letting the right foot find its natural position and have a tiny bend in each knee. The foot positioning is exactly the same as I'll set up for wing-shooting, and I try to have approximately the same weight on each foot. The muscle tension from the forward hand helps lock everything together through recoil, and also serves to keep the gunmount locked together while working the bolt. I assume that anything that needs to be hit that hard will likely need to get hit more than once.
Click to expand...


All this verbiage is for the first shot from a guy who has never fired a big bore... because two or three shots in, the gun teaches you everything you need to know... the physics becomes crystal clear.
 
When I'm shooting a kicker, I guess it depends on the kicker, because I seem to put a death grip on the forend of my .458, but when I look at the photo of Doug's .470 in full song, my fingers on the forend are relaxed and open. Mark Sullivan is an advocate of wrapping your fingers tightly around the barrels of a double, but the barrels heat up so quickly on repeat shots, a glove might be considered. I learned early on that to position the butt in the open pocket of the shoulder is the correct form, but then the elbow must be dropped to close the pocket and protect the shoulder joint. I won't say it bunches the muscles, because the muscles are still relaxed, but the shoulder pocket is closed. The lowest position I've shot the .458 from is sitting, and recoil feels no stronger slung up sitting than it does otherwise, perhaps because slung up, there is less chance that the rifle can move independently and bump me. Off hand seems to result in a higher muzzle rise, but perhaps my technique is just sloppy; I got a scope cut when shooting it off hand, (I predicted this would happen because the mount positioned the scope too far rearward, but because I liked it so much I didn't change it when I should have) but I was never touched when shooting from, shall I say, the more disciplined, supported positions. I've since changed the scope mount, after 18 months of shooting with irons, the scope is now positioned an inch forward. I seem to be able to shoot the rifle without trepidation, despite having that pipe back on top.

My old .458 mount, note the death grip on the forend . . .


The new mount with a Picatinny Rail allowing the scope to be placed an inch forward. Compare the position of the focus lock ring to the bolt handle in both photos
 
Last edited:
Boomer said:
When I'm shooting a kicker, I guess it depends on the kicker, because I seem to put a death grip on the forend of my .458, but when I look at the photo of Doug's .470 in full song, my fingers on the forend are relaxed and open. Mark Sullivan is an advocate of wrapping your fingers tightly around the barrels of a double, but the barrels heat up so quickly on repeat shots, a glove might be considered. I learned early on that to position the butt in the open pocket of the shoulder is the correct form, but then the elbow must be dropped to close the pocket and protect the shoulder joint. I won't say it bunches the muscles, because the muscles are still relaxed, but the shoulder pocket is closed. The lowest position I've shot the .458 from is sitting, and recoil feels no stronger slung up sitting than it does otherwise, perhaps because slung up, there is less chance that the rifle can move independently and bump me. Off hand seems to result in a higher muzzle rise, but perhaps my technique is just sloppy; I got a scope cut when shooting it off hand, (I predicted this would happen because the mount positioned the scope too far rearward, but because I liked it so much I didn't change it when I should have) but I was never touched when shooting from, shall I say, the more disciplined, supported positions. I've since changed the scope mount, after 18 months of shooting with irons, the scope is now positioned an inch forward. I seem to be able to shoot the rifle without trepidation, despite having that pipe back on top.

My old .458 mount, note the death grip on the forend . . .


The new mount with a Picatinny Rail allowing the scope to be placed an inch forward. Compare the position of the focus lock ring to the bolt handle in both photos
Click to expand...

...that's a nice mount

...lots to chew on in the thread

...at one time i regularly shot 375 h&h, 458 win, 378 wby over the course of four years ...i would consider myself to be just an average hunter ...worked my own way up starting as a kid from 30 cal thru average magnums and ended up in 375 dia ten years later ...wanted a bullet with momentum ...if you can handle a 30-06 you can learn to handle a 375 ...some people i've found have a fear factor in bigger cartridges ...that can be overcome mostly with a lot of shooting, standing preferably ...i enjoy my 375's much more than the 300 wm or 338's i've owned ...there's just much more of a roll with the former over the later which i experience as much more of a sharp, snappy recoil ...feels like i'm being nagged by smaller calibre recoil now ...couldn't be happier with the big stuff ...don't even notice the 375's now ...a lot of bad press mostly
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom