Tootall's Gunsmithing article
- Thread starter tootall
- Start date
I thought that the post overall was good. The only part I would perhaps take exception with was the ordering of parts for antique guns.. Antiques are my principle interest and for the most part I have to make broken or missing parts. I also would not consider threading, fitting and chambering barrels particularly difficult but would expect the difference between a hobby gunsmith and a "journeyman" category would be the quality and precision of their work
A couple of points re gunsmiths; in Canada, a licensed gunsmith only means that they are licensed to charge for their services, it does not imply any particular level of skill
Other point is that even in the 1800s many components were parted out and you had firms specializing in locks or barrels and so forth. Even though a company might put its name on a gun, that was more a reflection of the final quality of products of that firm rather than saying that it was made in its entirety by the company
Almost forgot; I would not consider myself a gunsmith but I do do most of my own repairs
cheers mooncoon
A couple of points re gunsmiths; in Canada, a licensed gunsmith only means that they are licensed to charge for their services, it does not imply any particular level of skill
Other point is that even in the 1800s many components were parted out and you had firms specializing in locks or barrels and so forth. Even though a company might put its name on a gun, that was more a reflection of the final quality of products of that firm rather than saying that it was made in its entirety by the company
Almost forgot; I would not consider myself a gunsmith but I do do most of my own repairs
cheers mooncoon
Excellent information, has anyone taken the*ICS Canada Firearms Repair course? If so how do you rate it in terms of post course knowledge and ability, or is it just a great info course, however you can get most of the info from the interweb?
fantastic tootall!
for those interested in more info on the courses
(1) the online courses are ok, but you will not get any of the hands on experience required for most gunsmithing jobs unless you already have (a)the firearms or (b)machine-tools
(2)i have done the gunsmithing course in maniwaki myself a few years ago:
they do teach machining and you will build your own remington700 during that program (pick a chambering for your rifle, ream+thread a blank barrel, install barrel, carve/inlet/bed/finish your stock from a semi-blank) this is the main project, and you can do whatever you want on the off time when you finish early (there is spare metal so use them as much as you can)
the dude who used to run the course was an idiot but he got removed this year after many years of complaints, so hopefully it will only get better for anyone taking the course in the future (replaced by some young guys who let the students experiment and do a lot of stuff we couldnt do because of that incompetent [georges meunier])
if you want to go through this program i am not sure for non-residents, but as a resident of quebec cost of the course was around 200$ for the manuals (which are fairly useless) and you should plan around $10k as minimum living expenses food+housing(housing will be around 400-500$/mo for a room/small appartment; call early there isn't much within the town, if you have a vehicle you can look around Deleage and such adjacent towns, or PM me and I will put you in touch with someone)
for those interested in more info on the courses
(1) the online courses are ok, but you will not get any of the hands on experience required for most gunsmithing jobs unless you already have (a)the firearms or (b)machine-tools
(2)i have done the gunsmithing course in maniwaki myself a few years ago:
they do teach machining and you will build your own remington700 during that program (pick a chambering for your rifle, ream+thread a blank barrel, install barrel, carve/inlet/bed/finish your stock from a semi-blank) this is the main project, and you can do whatever you want on the off time when you finish early (there is spare metal so use them as much as you can)
the dude who used to run the course was an idiot but he got removed this year after many years of complaints, so hopefully it will only get better for anyone taking the course in the future (replaced by some young guys who let the students experiment and do a lot of stuff we couldnt do because of that incompetent [georges meunier])
if you want to go through this program i am not sure for non-residents, but as a resident of quebec cost of the course was around 200$ for the manuals (which are fairly useless) and you should plan around $10k as minimum living expenses food+housing(housing will be around 400-500$/mo for a room/small appartment; call early there isn't much within the town, if you have a vehicle you can look around Deleage and such adjacent towns, or PM me and I will put you in touch with someone)
Great post with a TON of useful information. As a newbie with a fair bit of technical aptitude and a great enjoyment of tinkering, I'll be adding the resources you highlighted here to my list of information sources.
Regarding the CF Weapons Technician trade, it seems to me you have the right idea. I'm not a Wpn Tech, but I work along side them (I do sights and scopes, among other things) and my regular shooting buddies are all gun plumbers (It's their fault I've become an addict!).
What they get from work does not begin to cover the gamut of gunsmithing, and the ones that understand that there's a world beyond the Army acknowledge that. However, the .22 rimfire comes up more than you might think, since we support the Canadian Cadet Movement, which uses the C No.7, a Lee Enfield rechambered in .22, as well as various Anschutz rifles, in its marksmanship and biathlon programs. I think they may do some re-bluing as well, though I'll have to confirm that. (It may have been just a side project that a friend was working on - my buddies are the "self-starters" you described in the OP.)
They also have the nice perk of getting to shoot pretty well every type of weapons system they work on, which I have to admit makes me jealous. It's a rare treat when I get to shoot a 105mm Howitzer, and I have not yet had the pleasure of being booted in the shoulder by a Tac-50. But then, I'm in a specialist trade, so they're jealous of my pay! I guess it all comes out in the wash (as long as I buy some extra ammo and share from time to time!)
Thanks again for the comprehensive post. As I continue to develop in this hobby, I'm sure I'll be back often.
First of all as a retired RCEME, MOC 411 I know where you are as to the CF and its level of training.
Still the twenty years, plus was not a waste of time for me, even at the SNCO level. I appreciate your view.
I like guns….weapons, just about anything that goes bang.
This is from a Veh Tech.
The Wpns techs had/have a terrible disadvantage when compared to a “gun smith” just like the Veh tech. and master mechanics. The training is at the part replacer level, with very little free thought.
But there is a very good background of training in all of the basics, it is up to the individual to make the most of it.
Most of us did not.
Today I find that I consider myself as a well trained hammer and screwdriver user, as I see what a real craftsman can do, compared to what a lot of talking mouth pieces spout off on their excellences abilities of.
Craftsmanship comes from the heart, from the desire to the job right, just because that is the way it should be. Professional pride of a job done right and a love of trying to constantly improve one’s self.
I guess it come down to talking the talk and walking the walk.
OK, perhaps too much wine tonight.
Still the twenty years, plus was not a waste of time for me, even at the SNCO level. I appreciate your view.
I like guns….weapons, just about anything that goes bang.
This is from a Veh Tech.
The Wpns techs had/have a terrible disadvantage when compared to a “gun smith” just like the Veh tech. and master mechanics. The training is at the part replacer level, with very little free thought.
But there is a very good background of training in all of the basics, it is up to the individual to make the most of it.
Most of us did not.
Today I find that I consider myself as a well trained hammer and screwdriver user, as I see what a real craftsman can do, compared to what a lot of talking mouth pieces spout off on their excellences abilities of.
Craftsmanship comes from the heart, from the desire to the job right, just because that is the way it should be. Professional pride of a job done right and a love of trying to constantly improve one’s self.
I guess it come down to talking the talk and walking the walk.
OK, perhaps too much wine tonight.
I have been involved with guns for over half a century. Have been working on them for most of that time. Have owned a gunsmithing shop.
I am very good at certain things. Others, not so much. Learned to do checkering, realized that is a job I would much rather someone else do. It is very important to know what you can do well, what you aren't interested in doing, and especially what you cannot or should not do.
I am very good at certain things. Others, not so much. Learned to do checkering, realized that is a job I would much rather someone else do. It is very important to know what you can do well, what you aren't interested in doing, and especially what you cannot or should not do.
Yes, Gunsmithing is not something where someone can be a true "expert" in every facet!
Good one. Very good one.
Forgive me for adding, Gunsmiths don't spray paint guns to re-finish them.
They don't, no matter how good Krylon is.
There are reasonable exceptions, but "Tacticool" isn't one of them.
Kids, don't try this at home!
I did re-finish in black wrinkle paint a Norc 305 stock though, it was an improvement.
Good one. Very good one.
Forgive me for adding, Gunsmiths don't spray paint guns to re-finish them.
They don't, no matter how good Krylon is.
There are reasonable exceptions, but "Tacticool" isn't one of them.
Kids, don't try this at home!
I did re-finish in black wrinkle paint a Norc 305 stock though, it was an improvement.
Well, I have been a WPN TECH for 12 years, and all the things you mentioned, like Checkering, bedding, reaming, chambering, replacing 1187 firing pins (the CF uses them), bluing, working with spring steel, making your own flat spring, and a number of OTHER topics... are all things that you learn during your QL3/QL4 training. Were not just parts changers. At least not the reg force guys. A lot of it pertains to how In to the trade you get. Completing a QL6 gets you very deep into ballistics, and even deeper into the technical side.
I took the ICS gun smith course about 12 - 15 years ago, unless it has changed it was a waste of time. The information is all available on the internet and the course is so generic in material covered that you will have absolutely no practical skills from taking the course. It is all reference material and very little of that also.
Rodney
Rodney
Old thread, but very well done and has given me many many hours of reading and a great starting point to research from.
gladiator2008
New member
Wonderful job Tootall!
I did six months of manual machining at BCIT and then a two year CNC machining course at the same school in BC hoping to learn more about guns. I also have a 'certificate'...to display on my wall from that ICS school, but sadly no skills to shout hoarse about. I envy your skills without any formal schooling. Keep up the good work.
Did I succeed in becoming a 'smith'?
Well, I did learn a lot about machining but very little about Gunsmithing. I worked in the manufacturing industry for a while before I got tired of being a lineman and gave it up. The idea at that time was that no elected Government should ban guns from law abiding citizens and if they unfortunately did, well all I had to do was cut one for myself....lol
I still love all things made of metal and maybe I will carry on my hobby when I am semi-retired. In the meantime, keep up the good work.
I did six months of manual machining at BCIT and then a two year CNC machining course at the same school in BC hoping to learn more about guns. I also have a 'certificate'...to display on my wall from that ICS school, but sadly no skills to shout hoarse about. I envy your skills without any formal schooling. Keep up the good work.
Did I succeed in becoming a 'smith'?
Well, I did learn a lot about machining but very little about Gunsmithing. I worked in the manufacturing industry for a while before I got tired of being a lineman and gave it up. The idea at that time was that no elected Government should ban guns from law abiding citizens and if they unfortunately did, well all I had to do was cut one for myself....lol
I still love all things made of metal and maybe I will carry on my hobby when I am semi-retired. In the meantime, keep up the good work.
I am a tool and die maker with 20 yrs experience,and my own small business now. I love guns and have always worked on my own. I am looking into the legal end of things right now with the CFO,to see about transitioning into gun smithing.
Hey Ron..congrats..that IS good news !
I spoke to you awhile back on behalf of a friend...about a Canadian Edition Ithaca ( flag on receiver) he sold it before I had the chance to see it after talking to you.
Hope it all works out for you.
I see that there are some of you that want to be a gunsmith. But I have not seen anyone either in Canada or the USA if there are any talk about getting a license to be a gunsmith. You are required by law in Canada to have a license to do gunsmithing. Also you take on a lot of responsibility in that if you work on a firearm and some gets hurt or worse you know who is going to take the heat. So before you read a book or just watch some on youtube I would get some formal training and I would get a license from the CFO. Who is going to ask you to prove that you know what your doing. Please be safe and protect yourself first. Oh and another thing would you do the job your doing now for $20 hr and pay out over 20K just for equipment. If the job is worth doing it is worth being paid for. Just some food for thought.
I am a Professional Gunsmith and licensed.
I am a Professional Gunsmith and licensed.
is that so?
so you break the law when you bed a rifle stock, cut a muzzle crown or install a scope??
(all done non-commercial, as a hobby gunsmith)
might be useful to know what law applies and where to check the details.
