Torn between a t97 ftu gen 3 or a wk180c. Steer me right!

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easynow

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anybody have any sage advice? I feel like I've read everything I can find through googling, and I still can't decide which rifle I want. Mostly concerned about reliability and durability.

Not overly worried about bullpup or non bullpup as a main argument. Thanks guys!
 
Here's another wrench in the works for you:

Ref reliability and durability if you go the 180 route> Buy a WS-180MCR (Wolverine/Spectre) rather than the 180C (NS/Kodiak).

lol I was typing when btabin posted above
 
Hmmm, I'm looking used so my budget is capping at about 1000. I'll keep my eye out for a 180mcr I suppose. Might be worth the price bump to buy new...
 
Definately anything non T97. Out of those two, I'd pick the 180 even though I've never shot it, I know it wont jam like a T97. I've owned at least 5-6 T97 and tinkered with all of them. Only 1 of those were jam free, the rest were not even worthy of a range session. YMMV
 
PinaKaleada said:
Definately anything non T97. Out of those two, I'd pick the 180 even though I've never shot it, I know it wont jam like a T97. I've owned at least 5-6 T97 and tinkered with all of them. Only 1 of those were jam free, the rest were not even worthy of a range session. YMMV
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Did you try different mags? My buddy had endless trouble with his factory mags, bought a couple magpul pmags and never experienced a failure again...
 
easynow said:
Did you try different mags? My buddy had endless trouble with his factory mags, bought a couple magpul pmags and never experienced a failure again...
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Pmags, Steel mags, HK mags, 10 round mags, Lancer mags, C-product mags, USGI aluminum mags. Magazines with weak springs and strong springs. Fully loaded(10/10) and half loaded. Everything.

It's not that it doesn't work, it's that I get a jam every 100-200 rounds and thats enough for me to ditch the platform. Sometimes it's because the mag is pushed forward, or "used" as a fulcrum.

Either way, no other platforms other than 10/22 that I've shot, is so dependant on you not applying pressure at all to the magazine. Theres just so much slop in the magwell that you can easily change the angle of the round when picked up by the bolt.

On the other hand, while I've never touched the 180, I know that it uses AR15-ish barrel and bolts. If you try to notice, the bullet actually gets inserted into the chamber before the tail leaves the feed lips on the magazine. Whereas in a T97, the round actually "jumps" and is not guided at all for a short period... This is a major disadvantage on the T97 design. I can get deeper into other aspects such as bolt diameter and whatnot if you want.

However if you're ok with it being a range gun, never going to touch the mag, only going to use mags that are tested and known to work, then it's ok for the price point. But it's not a tool, it's more like a toy that shoots real bullets IMHO.

P.S. When it jams, the powder spills everywhere, good luck chambering the next round with all the powder in the chamber.
 
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PinaKaleada said:
Pmags, Steel mags, HK mags, 10 round mags, Lancer mags, C-product mags, USGI aluminum mags. Magazines with weak springs and strong springs. Fully loaded(10/10) and half loaded. Everything.

It's not that it doesn't work, it's that I get a jam every 100-200 rounds and thats enough for me to ditch the platform. Sometimes it's because the mag is pushed forward, or "used" as a fulcrum.

Either way, no other platforms other than 10/22 that I've shot, is so dependant on you not applying pressure at all to the magazine. Theres just so much slop in the magwell that you can easily change the angle of the round when picked up by the bolt.

On the other hand, while I've never touched the 180, I know that it uses AR15-ish barrel and bolts. If you try to notice, the bullet actually gets inserted into the chamber before the tail leaves the feed lips on the magazine. Whereas in a T97, the round actually "jumps" and is not guided at all for a short period... This is a major disadvantage on the T97 design. I can get deeper into other aspects such as bolt diameter and whatnot if you want.

However if you're ok with it being a range gun, never going to touch the mag, only going to use mags that are tested and known to work, then it's ok for the price point. But it's not a tool, it's more like a toy that shoots real bullets IMHO.

P.S. When it jams, the powder spills everywhere, good luck chambering the next round with all the powder in the chamber.
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Thanks for the info. Looking for something a bit more dependable than a range gun, you've convinced me to avoid the t97. Plus like Rek1 said, I'd rather support a Canadian manufacturer.
 
Actually the new gen 3 feels and looks much better than it's predecessors. I have a 180 and it has its share of issues that no one on this thread has pointed out but can be found in numerous other threads. It would come down to bullpup or carbine.
 
I went through this exact experience. First, i purchased a WK180, I was very happy with it until the bolt handle broke. The customer service was quick and effective, ended up replacing the entire bolt. After that, it has been rock solid but i cant help to believe these are slightly over gassed because that bolt really slams the back of the receiver. After awhile i couldnt get over the fact that i needed a bulpup. I got a great deal on my T97 Gen 2, and i am in love. These rifles are incredible for the price. The trigger is so good, the weight is amazing and the pointability is unrivalled. My buddies x95 isnt as nice to point as this gun. Another thing to keep in mind is that this gun runs great dry, wheras the x95 wants to be wet.

As far as accuracy goes, the WK180 is far easier to get tight groups with, three shot groups are easily within 2-3 moa. The T97 is also very accurate but its trickier to shoot for a few reasons, firstly its more rear heavy so it bounces more, secondly, the striker type action has a lot of movement after pulling the trigger and before firing a bullet.

My 180 is set up as a DMR with a 3.5-10x and bipod, I love it, about 700 rounds through it, ~10 failures.
My T97 is set up with a RMR and flashlight, I love it, around 400 rounds through it, zero failures.

Depending on what you're using this rifle for, i would recommend both! Both rifles prefer specific mags. Some dont fit in my 180, some dont fit in my 97.

For value to reliability ratio i would recommend the T97 being better for the money.
For a longer range rifle, i would recommend the WK180, however you may need to purchase a new trigger.

If I could only have one, I would choose the T97.
 
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RobbieLaidlaw said:
I went through this exact experience. First, i purchased a WK180, I was very happy with it until the bolt handle broke. The customer service was quick and effective, ended up replacing the entire bolt. After that, it has been rock solid but i cant help to believe these are slightly over gassed because that bolt really slams the back of the receiver. After awhile i couldnt get over the fact that i needed a bulpup. I got a great deal on my T97 Gen 2, and i am in love. These rifles are incredible for the price. The trigger is so good, the weight is amazing and the pointability is unrivalled. My buddies x95 isnt as nice to point as this gun. Another thing to keep in mind is that this gun runs great dry, wheras the x95 wants to be wet.

As far as accuracy goes, the WK180 is far easier to get tight groups with, three shot groups are easily within 2-3 moa. The T97 is also very accurate but its trickier to shoot for a few reasons, firstly its more rear heavy so it bounces more, secondly, the striker type action has a lot of movement after pulling the trigger and before firing a bullet.

My 180 is set up as a DMR with a 3.5-10x and bipod, I love it, about 700 rounds through it, ~10 failures.
My T97 is set up with a RMR and flashlight, I love it, around 400 rounds through it, zero failures.

Depending on what you're using this rifle for, i would recommend both! Both rifles prefer specific mags. Some dont fit in my 180, some dont fit in my 97.

For value to reliability ratio i would recommend the T97 being better for the money.
For a longer range rifle, i would recommend the WK180, however you may need to purchase a new trigger.

If I could only have one, I would choose the T97.
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Damn you....

Hm.
 
The X95 definitely doesn’t need to be run wet.....

No seriously, at least I don’t think 180 jams the way T97 does. When T97 jams and you need to clear the chamber before its useful again. For the 180 at least you get warning signs.
 
JBD said:
The gen 3 t 97 is reliable and fairly accurate. See my review.
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Thanks man. Read it. Still undecided, haha. Tough choice when it'll be your only real firearm purchase of the year (or more.) I need this rifle to be a decent bush rifle too, so I'm leaning towards the t97 based on the evenings research.
 
To muddy the waters even further, I was on the original WK180c preorder and never swapped bolt carriers or sent anything for warranty. I had no issues whatsoever. I did end up selling it to a friend of mine after the OIC, only because all of his semis were on the list and he had nothing to shoot in the interim. That rifle is still going strong and it still shoots well, grouping about 2" or 3" with factory ammo at 100y. The only stoppages I've ever had was shooting the rifle rested on those hera arms mags it came with from the factory. It shoots fine resting on pmags and all of the other magazine brands I own.

I've shot a T97 and I liked it too, except fumbling with the mag release and safety. I think some of those issues have been addressed in the latest generation though... Save another G and buy them both! You'll be able to sell one used or keep it as a loaner/backup.
 
Had a T97 gen 2. Chewed up and spit out everything like a two bit w#ore. It just kept going and going. I miss that little champ.

Wouldn't mind getting another but so many people are saying that the odds of getting a good one is about the same as winning the lottery.

Maybe I got lucky with the one I had? Who knows.
 
jiffx2781 said:
Had a T97 gen 2. Chewed up and spit out everything like a two bit w#ore. It just kept going and going. I miss that little champ.

Wouldn't mind getting another but so many people are saying that the odds of getting a good one is about the same as winning the lottery.

Maybe I got lucky with the one I had? Who knows.
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Hmmm. Store by me has new gen 3s with the flat top for 1199 which is high, but in today's reality, not too bad.
 
Because the T97 and Wk are so close in price right now, the better choice by far is the WK. The type 97 has a bunch of ergonomic issues that you have to overcome. Which seems counter intuitive for a rifle you want to carry as a bush gun. The safety is less than useless so you'll either not use it (dangerous) or carry your rifle with a mag in without chambering a round. I personally prefer just moving my thumb slightly to disengage my safety. I only had two Gen 1s so the mag release may be better with that ambi release, but it was horrendous to get a magazine out with any type of speed. Finally the trigger. Oh that trigger. It is a wall of mush. You have no idea when it's going to break. That's bad for practical accuracy. Shooting off a bench it was fine because I could stay stable through the entire pull but offhand it was a challenge to get decent groups. The WK comes with a heavy trigger, but it's easily replaced by any AR trigger you can dream of. (Even modifying a triggertech to fit isn't hard.)

Other than the bullpup vs. regular rifle appeal, they're about equal. Weight, optic mounting, accuracy (both my T97s and WK float around the 2 MOA mark with the surplus ammo I use. More than accurate enough.) and fun factor. I just think for the similarity in price, you're better off with a WK. If you find a Gen 1 for 700 bucks like was possible six months ago, snatch it up and you can do no wrong. Or get both eventually and see how they stack up yourself. Buy Canadian first.
 
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