Tough test for companies in carbine competition
- Thread starter Camp Cook
- Start date
actually I was talking to a guy at the military display at the stampede last year and he was saying that they are likely going to change to 6.5mm because it has more penetration power which enables our boys to compete with the 7.62x39's penetration power.
although that being said IF it happens, it will take forever for them to change calibers.
SCAR is dead, SOCOM didn't want it, doubt army will. It has such a few change it doesn't really make much difference, ACR beats it in every level
ACR - Too expensive, good luck selling 2.8k stuff to the army, they'll won't buy (civilian price are usually few hundred more expensive, but considering it being close to 3k in the states...
XCR, M4 is a familiar platform, why change when there isn't that much improvement
KAC SR-16, might be the next if they keep prices low (like how FN took M16A4 over Colt)
LWRC, might be depending on how much they can produce and how much they could design
ACR - Too expensive, good luck selling 2.8k stuff to the army, they'll won't buy (civilian price are usually few hundred more expensive, but considering it being close to 3k in the states...
XCR, M4 is a familiar platform, why change when there isn't that much improvement
KAC SR-16, might be the next if they keep prices low (like how FN took M16A4 over Colt)
LWRC, might be depending on how much they can produce and how much they could design
There won't be a change. For simple reasons: we in the Western nations are broke. The M-4 works well, if not absolute perfection. Cost of changing ammunition, at a time when ammunition costs are soaring, and volume being shot by military/police/civilians is going up, becomes too expensive for the taxpayer to bear. The 6.5mm or 6.8mm is going to be maybe eventually chosen by some special ops units...if they want to sacrifice the number of rounds carried (debatable). But Army-wide? Nope.
Bah, what the hell was I thinking?
You are correct sir. I don't know where my head was when I wrote that.
I don't see any of the rifles out on the market right now being able to deliver a "knockout punch" to the M4 being used now. This whole trial is a waste of money! Sounds to me like someone decided to create himself a million dollar "make work project" just to look busy!
Uh, no it is not dead. They are just not purchasing the MK16 in large quantities at this time. However they did purchase the MK17 and the MK20 SSR.
Colt already has a waiver now for Colt Canada CHF barrels.
M855A1 will be the test ammo, its a lot harder on bolts than M855.
Keep in mind there are TWO different trials/programs
M4 PIP
IC (Individual Carbine).
M4 PIP is a drop on upper program
IC is a whole new gun (but not necessarily).
Right now Colt is shipping M4A1's to Big Army with I beleive Colt Canada barrels.
M4 PIP is looking for a improved upper on a Colt M4A1 lower.
IC is looking at a new gun.
The PIP is going to happen, IC needs to be better than the M4A1 and the M4 PIP Best Competitor to go forward.
The Army has several programs coming down the pipe, I for one don't see a piston gun winning period.
I expect a Colt gun with an improved bolt and rail, maybe from Colt, maybe from other vendors - end story.
M855A1 will be the test ammo, its a lot harder on bolts than M855.
Keep in mind there are TWO different trials/programs
M4 PIP
IC (Individual Carbine).
M4 PIP is a drop on upper program
IC is a whole new gun (but not necessarily).
Right now Colt is shipping M4A1's to Big Army with I beleive Colt Canada barrels.
M4 PIP is looking for a improved upper on a Colt M4A1 lower.
IC is looking at a new gun.
The PIP is going to happen, IC needs to be better than the M4A1 and the M4 PIP Best Competitor to go forward.
The Army has several programs coming down the pipe, I for one don't see a piston gun winning period.
I expect a Colt gun with an improved bolt and rail, maybe from Colt, maybe from other vendors - end story.
"I expect a Colt gun with an improved bolt and rail".....wait a minute isn't that what the KAC gun is? Improved bolt & rail and a better barrel (CHF).
I didn't know that M855A1 was harder on bolts, Kevin, can you give us specifics? Pressures ? ect....?
Rich
I didn't know that M855A1 was harder on bolts, Kevin, can you give us specifics? Pressures ? ect....?
Rich
If they didn't change the round to another calibre, it is not worth the trouble to replace thousands of rifles or to justify the costs.
Unless, any of these contenders can be cheaper than the M16/M4 platform, I don't think anything will come about.
Unless, any of these contenders can be cheaper than the M16/M4 platform, I don't think anything will come about.
I wouldent be suprised even if all of the competitors were better then the m4. Even if this was to be true and it was out preformed by all of the competitors I could still see the army going with the m4 due to cost. Really the only way that I could see any of the competitors getting the contract is by coming in under the cost of the m4 and out proforming it by quite a large margin.
What I want to know is what do people see greater than the M4A1?
Yes some special mission folks who shoot 100 times what the rest of the military have needs beyond the M4A1 in its current configuration, but beyond any ill informed ideas, the M4A1 meets and far exceeds the 80% solution for soldiers.
I have seen M855A1 but not shot any, and all the pressure data is second hand since we don't have any to fire thru a pressure test barrel, but I have hear SEVERAL thousand of PSI more chamber pressure (65kpsi+ as opposed to Mk318 SOST 58kspi).
Army folks in the know have told me it is much harder on barrels.
We (KAC) are not the only people with improved barrel/bolts and rails, I know LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense and others have their solutions, as well as Hk, Remington and others.
Yes some special mission folks who shoot 100 times what the rest of the military have needs beyond the M4A1 in its current configuration, but beyond any ill informed ideas, the M4A1 meets and far exceeds the 80% solution for soldiers.
I have seen M855A1 but not shot any, and all the pressure data is second hand since we don't have any to fire thru a pressure test barrel, but I have hear SEVERAL thousand of PSI more chamber pressure (65kpsi+ as opposed to Mk318 SOST 58kspi).
Army folks in the know have told me it is much harder on barrels.
We (KAC) are not the only people with improved barrel/bolts and rails, I know LMT, Colt, Daniel Defense and others have their solutions, as well as Hk, Remington and others.
Oh man I am going to lol and you guys are going to sh*t yourselves if they pick the XCR-L...
Unless the company partners with a mid to large size military contractor company, the XCR won't be selected. There is a labyrinth of requirements that must be all met, for selection to even have a hope of occurring. One big one is the need for them to prove they have large scale manufacturing capabilities...that costs big bucks. One small one that got missed on the original entry, was that Robinson did not provide a BFA (blank firing attachment) with the sample, and thus was DQ'ed before even starting. Big contractor experienced with the Pentagon won't overlook or forget that, and will provide the manufacturing capacity.
Yea, that's what I was thinking too. Too bad, really, the XCR I tried seemed decent.
