Tracers as Cheap 308 plinkers

[Ganderite]

Years ago I bought a few thousand cheap pulled tracers from the 7.62x54R

Each bullet weighs about 148 gr, but is as long as a Nosler 180 gr Ballistic Tip. Both have a green tip, too, although the Russian’s is just paint.

I am going to try these bullets in some 308 barrels. I have a pair of 308 barrels chambered with a 303 reamer, so there is no issue of the neck being too tight.

I also loaded some in 308 Win and for a pair of 30-06s (Garand and Mauser). These only have about 3 thou extra clearance after the fatter bullet is seated, but that is enough.

I will shoot these at 50 and 100 yards along with a standard 148 gr military FMJ and compare accuracy. I am hoping for at least 4” at 100. That would make it an acceptable cheap plinker bullet.

One of the 308Brit barrels is a 1:14. I would usually expect a 180 gr bullet to stabilise. These are 180 gr in length, but have 150 gr velocity (RPM), so should be ok.

I hope to shoot these tomorrow morning.

 

[horseman2]

IIRC the accuracy levels from the US Military at 100 yards . . . but I may stand corrected.
Match 1"
Standard Rifle 2"
Machine gun 4"
Tracers 12"

 

[Ganderite]

IIRC the accuracy levels from the US Military at 100 yards . . . but I may stand corrected.
Match 1"
Standard Rifle 2"
Machine gun 4"
Tracers 12"

Wow!

I hope my paper is big enough.

The Garand and Mauser (iron sights) will be shot at 50 yards.

I think I will add some cast lead bullets (gas checked) to the test, for comparison.

 

[B]

While you may have gotten them for a decent prices wouldn't call them cheap given the prices of pretty well any tracer bullet.

 

[Deathrawt]

I have some tracers in 7.62x39 and they don't light up until around the 100 yard mark
They might not light up at 50 yards
I never even clued in that I could use the bullets for 308 reloads, might have to try that sometime!

 

[Ganderite]

I have some tracers in 7.62x39 and they don't light up until around the 100 yard mark
They might not light up at 50 yards
I never even clued in that I could use the bullets for 308 reloads, might have to try that sometime!

I am looking for cheap plinker ammo. I don't care if they light up. In fact, given the fire hazard, it is better that they don't. Good think most of my shots go into an earth berm, so no hazard.

These bullets are around .310 - a little fatter than a 308, which typically run 3075 to about 309. measure the diameter of the neck on a fired case. And then size a case and seat a tracer. If the case neck diameter is smaller than the fired neck diameter, you are good to go. The chamber has to be big enough to allow the case to open up and release the bullet. Otherwise you have a pipe bomb.

 

[Dake21]

IIRC the accuracy levels from the US Military at 100 yards . . . but I may stand corrected.
Match 1"
Standard Rifle 2"
Machine gun 4"
Tracers 12"

Orbitalakt used to have the info available publicly on their website before they merged with Northrop Grumman Corp. The US military and Canada alike set an accuracy requirement at 600 yard and use the mean radius method, not extreme spread like we usually see on this site. I don't remember the numbers exactly but most of the Ball ammo was about 6 - 8'' mean radius at 600. Tracers groups requirement were a little bit wider by 1 or 2 moa.

Edit: Well its back online apparently. http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/7-62mmAmmunition/Documents/7.62mmAmmunitionFactSheet.pdf

However, all of this is moot because he is going to shoot it in his gun with non-military spec ammo from a different nation...

Off topic: Oh, and you can see 7,62x51 is over 50,000 in pressure so can we at last put this myth to death? Thanks.

 

[Deathrawt]

I am looking for cheap plinker ammo. I don't care if they light up. In fact, given the fire hazard, it is better that they don't. Good think most of my shots go into an earth berm, so no hazard.

These bullets are around .310 - a little fatter than a 308, which typically run 3075 to about 309. measure the diameter of the neck on a fired case. And then size a case and seat a tracer. If the case neck diameter is smaller than the fired neck diameter, you are good to go. The chamber has to be big enough to allow the case to open up and release the bullet. Otherwise you have a pipe bomb.

Thanks for the info I will double check the case mouth measurements to make sure I'm good to go
As far as using tracers for cheap plinking ammo wouldn't you be better off using normal surplus bullets if you don't care about them lighting up?
Tracer bullets are hard to find and you could get some good money for them

 

[Ganderite]

Thanks for the info I will double check the case mouth measurements to make sure I'm good to go
As far as using tracers for cheap plinking ammo wouldn't you be better off using normal surplus bullets if you don't care about them lighting up?
Tracer bullets are hard to find and you could get some good money for them

Really? How much for .310"?

 

[woodchopper]

I am looking for cheap plinker ammo. I don't care if they light up. In fact, given the fire hazard, it is better that they don't. Good think most of my shots go into an earth berm, so no hazard.

These bullets are around .310 - a little fatter than a 308, which typically run 3075 to about 309. measure the diameter of the neck on a fired case. And then size a case and seat a tracer. If the case neck diameter is smaller than the fired neck diameter, you are good to go. The chamber has to be big enough to allow the case to open up and release the bullet. Otherwise you have a pipe bomb.

oh they will light up, only they will be in the berm.

To be a little more clear they light up while still in the barrel, they just don't become visible till the first layer of tracer component burns out and gets to the main tracer compound.

 

[9mmGunGuy]

Someone during a safety course stated (without proof) that tracers were illegal in Canada.
Was he wrong?

 

[mustang979]

oh they will light up, only they will be in the berm.

To be a little more clear they light up while still in the barrel, they just don't become visible till the first layer of tracer component burns out and gets to the main tracer compound.

To be honest, I never used to see my tracers. I could always see my platoon mates tracers, but mine were VERY hard to see. It kinda negates the fun to use tracers when you can't see them.

 

[Ganderite]

Orbitalakt used to have the info available publicly on their website before they merged with Northrop Grumman Corp. The US military and Canada alike set an accuracy requirement at 600 yard and use the mean radius method, not extreme spread like we usually see on this site. I don't remember the numbers exactly but most of the Ball ammo was about 6 - 8'' mean radius at 600. Tracers groups requirement were a little bit wider by 1 or 2 moa.

Edit: Well its back online apparently. http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/7-62mmAmmunition/Documents/7.62mmAmmunitionFactSheet.pdf

However, all of this is moot because he is going to shoot it in his gun with non-military spec ammo from a different nation...

Off topic: Oh, and you can see 7,62x51 is over 50,000 in pressure so can we at last put this myth to death? Thanks.

They say the tracer is 15" at 600. That seems very, very good.

Tomorrow I expect to see about 8" at 100. Maybe I am in for a pleasant surprise.

Max average of 57,000 psi would be similar to 308. I recall that the max allowed for a single round is in the order of 62,000 psi for both 308 and 7.62x51.

 

[Daver_II]

Be careful if you are shooting in the bush. Always make sure you have a dirt/sand backstop.

Tracers can start a fire, should the right conditions be present.

 

[Ganderite]

oh they will light up, only they will be in the berm.

To be a little more clear they light up while still in the barrel, they just don't become visible till the first layer of tracer component burns out and gets to the main tracer compound.

Yes, I can see smoke coming out of the berm - which is solid sand.

 

[Deathrawt]

Really? How much for .310"?

If you want to sell some I'd be interested
Be fun to shoot some tracers out of a mosin or lee enfield

 

[Ganderite]

They don't light up (become visible) until beyond 100 yards.

How practical can they be? You would need a fire proof 200 yard + range.

I used to carry some in my hunting kit for emergency location if I got lost after dark. I thought tracers shot straight up might be noticeable.

Beyond that, I have not had a use for them.

And old tracers have a poor ignition rate (I assume).

 

[mustang979]

The ones we used were lit and bright right out of the barrel. The light show in the butts was like something from star wars when we did night shoots with c9's and c6's.

 

[Ganderite]

OK, back from the range.

I shot a Lee Enfield # 1 and #4 in 308 Brit, and a Lee Enfield #4 in 308Win, and a Mauser (17.5" barrel) and a Garand in 30-06. Both with iron sights.

Each was shot with 5 rounds of milsurp ball and 5 rounds of tracer. Load and brass was same for both bullets. Groups for ball and tracer were similar. I also fired one group with match bullets. It was better. And I fired two of the rifles with 170g gas checked cast bullets. At 50 yards the cast group was better than ball and tracer and at 100 it was about the same. The cast load was just a guesstimate. No development at all.

Garand at 50 yards:

Lee Enfield #4 in 308 at 100 yards

Lee Enfield # 4 in 308 Brit at 100 yards

Conclusion: The tracer rounds shoot about the same as ball rounds at close range and are adequate for plinking. I have a couple buckets of them so was looking for a use. Cast bullets would be even cheaper and better.

For something like CQB (30 to 10 yards) they would be perfect.

This only makes sense if you get tracers cheap and the fire hazard can be handled. Today it was raining and I shot right into the side of a hill.

These tracers are from the 7.62x54r and measure 0.310" They work in a standard 308 chamber with commercial brass. I have confirmed that with military brass (thicker neck walls) the loaded round is too fat in a match chamber. The round will chamber all right, but there is inadequate expansion for the neck and pressures spike.

If you load any Russian bullets in a 308 rifle, make sure that the diameter of the neck of a loaded case is smaller than the neck of a fired case.

I also have a few buckets of pulled Russian ball rounds, and am looking for ways to use them up.

 

[Receipt]

I've run thousands of .310"-.311" 123gr SKS pulls through a Lee sizer with appropriate lubrication, they came down to .3085" - .309" easily enough. Worked great for cheap 308 plinking loads and perfect for 300blk supers.
Couldn't this be done on these as well?