Im just going to find data for a 145grain bullet reload for a 30-06.
tracers
- Thread starter Ruger30-06
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Im just going to find data for a 145grain bullet reload for a 30-06.
"...mean that incendiary ammo is legal..." Nope. Evil by name. In any case, unless it's cartridge designation includes a 'T', it doesn't light at all until impact. API has no trace element. The incendiary's sole purpose is to start a fire. Preferably in the bad guy's gas tank.
Load ANY bullet for the weight. Who made it or what its intended purpose is doesn't matter. Mind you, few ranges allow tracers, so you'd be wasting your time and money.
Load ANY bullet for the weight. Who made it or what its intended purpose is doesn't matter. Mind you, few ranges allow tracers, so you'd be wasting your time and money.
I've reloaded a couple of hundred .30-06 tracers for a match this month with 47.5 grains of IMR 4895. This load consistently nails a 10" gong at 300 yds. By the way, here is a diagram of the contruction of the .50 cal incendiary rd.
Shot at 2007-12-04
Shot at 2007-12-04
I am not a reloader, but...
You have to load them the same as all your other rounds, or else you can't use them for aiming... they need to have the same balistic characteristics as the ball you are using.
My standard .30-06 reload is 47.5 grains of IVI using a Winchester 147 grain FMJ. When I can find Winchester bulk bullets. My reloads using 145 grain M25 Tracer bullets is also 47.5 grains of IMR 4895. US National Match ammo and most Canadian Army .30-06 manufactured until the middle '60's, both used IMR 4895. I'm using the tracer I build for a match on a Canadian Forces base in December, I don't think there will be any problems as permission has already been granted for use of tracer.
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#1bcshooter
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I've been looking through my reloading books and can't find a load for a 145gn in 3006 . I have 1000 of these to load for my Browning belt fed . I use IMR3031 . do you have a listing for that powder
I use the original 1960 Canadian Forces Technical orders and US Army Ordnance manuals from the 1940's to base my load on, which we have at work. I did load all my .30-06 with IMR 3031 using 165 grain bullets back about 21 years ago, but I found 3031 does not meter well when you are high volume loading.
In 1986 I was loading 42.5 grains of IMR 3031 pushing a 165 grain Nosler Solid Base bullet & 41.5 grains of 3031 pushing a 147 grain IVI bullet. The provided minimal reliable functioning of my Garand and they were particularly accurate with the rifle that I had at that time. Interesting sidenote, I used 20rds of the 147 grain bullet through a converted BAR and got 10x 2 rd bursts. Boy is it embarrassing when the guy 2 shooting positions from you is a cop.
In 1986 I was loading 42.5 grains of IMR 3031 pushing a 165 grain Nosler Solid Base bullet & 41.5 grains of 3031 pushing a 147 grain IVI bullet. The provided minimal reliable functioning of my Garand and they were particularly accurate with the rifle that I had at that time. Interesting sidenote, I used 20rds of the 147 grain bullet through a converted BAR and got 10x 2 rd bursts. Boy is it embarrassing when the guy 2 shooting positions from you is a cop.
Looking for information unrelated to the topic of this thread I came across this interesting piece at CBSA web site at http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html#P012
Yes, but that is the Canadian Border Service Agency, and they don't have a lot of credibility these days! Now if you can quote a CURRENT Natural Resourses document or CFC publication (chapter and verse) I would be more tempted to believe it.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cr/SOR-98-462/bo-ga:s_1::bo-ga:s_2?page=2
PART 5
PROHIBITED AMMUNITION
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 10
1. Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a commonly available semi-automatic handgun or revolver and that is manufactured or assembled with a projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to be capable of penetrating body armour, including KTW, THV and 5.7 x 28 mm P-90 cartridges.
2. Any projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered to ignite on impact, where the projectile is designed for use in or in conjunction with a cartridge and does not exceed 15 mm in diameter.
3. Any projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to explode on impact, where the projectile is designed for use in or in conjunction with a cartridge and does not exceed 15 mm in diameter.
4. Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a shotgun and that contains projectiles known as “fléchettes” or any similar projectiles.
OR
Natural Resourses Canada who only states that tracers are not in the definition of Class 6.1 safety cartridges
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mms/explosif/pdf/8.pdf
Para 11
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cr/SOR-98-462/bo-ga:s_1::bo-ga:s_2?page=2
PART 5
PROHIBITED AMMUNITION
Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 10
1. Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a commonly available semi-automatic handgun or revolver and that is manufactured or assembled with a projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to be capable of penetrating body armour, including KTW, THV and 5.7 x 28 mm P-90 cartridges.
2. Any projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered to ignite on impact, where the projectile is designed for use in or in conjunction with a cartridge and does not exceed 15 mm in diameter.
3. Any projectile that is designed, manufactured or altered so as to explode on impact, where the projectile is designed for use in or in conjunction with a cartridge and does not exceed 15 mm in diameter.
4. Any cartridge that is capable of being discharged from a shotgun and that contains projectiles known as “fléchettes” or any similar projectiles.
OR
Natural Resourses Canada who only states that tracers are not in the definition of Class 6.1 safety cartridges
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/mms/explosif/pdf/8.pdf
Para 11
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The ignition on impact is a very interesting part of that like I mentioned earlier. If I am not mistaken, at least some API rounds ignite on discharge, i.e. powder flames enter the incendiary cavity thru a small hole in the heal of the projectile and ignite the charge. Such a projectile should be legal, as it ignites not on impact. However, the p5.2 can be read that that it is the target that ignites on impact, than the tracers had to fall under it.
What part of me posting the diagram of the .50 API round did you miss?? With 27 years working in the Ammunition and Explosive world both as a military Ammunition Technician and as a Civilian Explosive Technician working in Defence Research Explosive Exploitation, I have never seen the round you have mentioned. I would be completely amazed should you to be able to produce a detailed drawing of such a round, otherwise it is my belief that you are mistaken.
Part 5 leaves absolutely nothing open to discussion. The specific use of the terms "designed, manufactured or altered to ignite on impact" and "designed, manufactured or altered so as to explode on impact" are very specific therefore nothing can be read "into them".
Part 5 leaves absolutely nothing open to discussion. The specific use of the terms "designed, manufactured or altered to ignite on impact" and "designed, manufactured or altered so as to explode on impact" are very specific therefore nothing can be read "into them".
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The diagram you posted was an APIT round, not an API. The M20 APIT round as the diagram indicates.
APIT= Armor Piercing Incendiary Tracer = is a tracer, ignites on firing (or shortly thereafter) Incendiary component ignites on impact
API= Armor Piercing Incendiary= no tracing component, incendiary component ingites on impact
From http://www.rvow.com/m8_api.htm
50 Caliber M8 API
The M8 API (armor piercing incendiary) was put into service in 1943 to replace the M1 Incendiary, and is still in service today. The M8 is built nearly identical to the M2 Armor Piercing except the M8 has 12 grains of incendiary mix (IM#11) in the nose instead of a lead filler, and a lead caulking disc in the base acting as a seal. Having the same hardened steel core as the M2, the M8 matches the armor piercing capability of the M2 with the added advantage of incendiary effect. While it has considerably less incendiary mix than the M1, the performance of the M8 was greatly superior to the M1 because of it's ability to penetrate the target and ignite the material inside rather than just flash on the surface like the M1 often did, making for a greater first shot effect. Bullet weight is about 649 grains, and identified by silver tip paint.
Pyrotechnic performance of these projectiles is only slightly less than the M1 Incendiary. The flash varies exponentially with the amount of fuel, so while the M1 contains 3 times the incendiary mix of the M8, the flash is only about 30% larger. These M8 are also safer ( we have fired 20,000 plus rounds and not yet had a muzzle flash,) but they are less sensitive. When shooting through steel drums, they flash on the second surface creating a flash inside the drum. Similarly, when shooting vehicles, the projectile generally penetrates the skin and detonates inside on another sheet metal surface. High speed photos show the tip breaking off with the first penetration, exposing the incendiary mix which then detonates on the second impact. Plywood targets are merely penetrated with no flash. They will flash on a dirt backstop, but unless they strike a rock the projectile will more than likely penetrate about 6" into the surface before flashing, making only a small visible flash. But if your target is rocks, concrete, or heavy steel, these bullets provide a spectacular show!
M20 API-T
50 Caliber Armor Piercing Incendiary with a tracer element. Came to life early in W.W.II, for decades this was the ultimate in versatility and performance. The hardened steel core is only slightly lighter than the M8 API because of the cavity necessary for the tracer element. The Incendiary mix is 18 grains if IM#11, so the incendiary effect is slightly greater than the M8 API. The tracer element, however, is tiny compared to the M17 so to get the desired length of trace a more efficient tracer material is used. This new tracing material gives a dim trace for the first 300 yards, then full bright for the remainder of the 1750 yards. Projectiles are lighter than other comparable service rounds, weighing on about 620 grains. Tips are painted red and silver.
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Very interesting web site, lots of good knowledge, too bad we can't get them up here. You are correct, I posted the APIT, which was the only diagram I currently have available in .50 API(T). To my knowledge Canada DOES NOT issue the M8 round at this time and probably the M20 rd is considered obsolete these days. There are approximately 10 different types of types of .50 currently in service in Canada not including sniper ammo. I believe at this time the only API ammo that is issued is recently designed ammunition for snipers.
http://www.gd-otscanada.com/html/en/products/ammunition-small.php
http://www.gd-otscanada.com/html/en/products/ammunition-small.php
The short answer is that if you bought in the EE they are legal. If they were not they would a been axed long before you got near em and certianly befor that many BTTs.
Now that you make me think of it they might be fun in the CZ
Now that you make me think of it they might be fun in the CZ
