Trade Ex small ring sporters?

[TheCoachZed]

So - what's up with the M96 conversion sporters that Trade Ex sells? I realize they were originally chambered for 6.5x55, but they have plenty that have been redone to 8mm or .30-06 ... any of you fellows shoot these? I assume they are the sort of thing that get warned about (small ring Mauser in a cartridge that's hotter than original chambering), but some people are shooting them OK?

What's the scoop?

 

[alinalberta]

No warnings are required. The small ring mauser is strong enough for any standard base cartridge. Not suitable for a mgnum case rechamber or rebarrel but the 30-06 family is not a problem.

 

[nowarningshot]

I believe that some are re-chambered to 9.3x62. These are Ok also?

Human nature people are going to load them hot, especially since a lot of the chamberings are either not common at Walmart, or super wimpy due to liability....thinking 8x57 and 7x57.

 

[dgradinaru]

Ive used the m96 action in 8x57 and 9.3x62, no problems. They can handle mild-hot loads pretty well. I shot a full power RWS round 293gr @ 2400frs thru one with the 96 action and I had no problems whats so ever, but each rifle has to be inspected to make sure its in good condition. There good rifles for the money and most shoot very accurate.

 

[bordam]

You can put every caliber on M96 that is OK for m98 Mauser. The bolt lugs dimensionally are the same for m98 and m96, and the third lug (on M98) is only -"in case....".
Norma used M96 receivers to test all of theirs cartridges and no failures have been seen....
Also a person in USA made an experiment and put almost everything up to 50 BMG on M96 Swede and they all worked without failure.
But M98 is safer in case of extreme pressure - like cartridge over loaded with powder...etc...
I have a friend shooting 300 Win Mag on M96 for long time reloading for hottest possible load all the time - no pro....but he drilled another holes on the bolt to help a gas escape - "just in case"....

borislav

 

[Baribal]

You can put every caliber on M96 that is OK for m98 Mauser. The bolt lugs dimensionally are the same for m98 and m96, and the third lug (on M98) is only -"in case....".
Norma used M96 receivers to test all of theirs cartridges and no failures have been seen....
Also a person in USA made an experiment and put almost everything up to 50 BMG on M96 Swede and they all worked without failure.
But M98 is safer in case of extreme pressure - like cartridge over loaded with powder...etc...
I have a friend shooting 300 Win Mag on M96 for long time reloading for hottest possible load all the time - no pro....but he drilled another holes on the bolt to help a gas escape - "just in case"....

borislav

Woah! that's serious stuff! Not my habit to beat on someone here, but hey, I can't control myself!
First of all, M/98 have been chambered for magnums by factories, NOT so for the M/94/96/38!
Then, all the pre-98 were not designed to handle pressures above about 48 000 PSI - Husqvarna and Carl Gustav are the only factories who ever built sporting rifles based on the M/94/96/38 - others, like Vapen-Depoten have used ex-military actions, but always with looooonnnngggg throats to lower pressures!
But HVA, who built the biggest amount of these "sporters" never stepped above a MAP of 57 700 PSI!

The M/94/96/38 really lacks the third lug of the M/98, plus the material surrounding the front ring AND the gas escaping capability a M/98 has!
And I am don't even talking about metallurgy involved in these actions!
And I can certify you that even if you drill those thiny holes in the receiver ring and chamber one of those rifles to a Magnum caliber, material fatigue will come to meet you so fast you just couldn't believe it!
And if you want to refer to Norma regarding the M/94/96/38, you better have your facts straight; they blew hundreds of M/94/96/38 in their testings, and this with factory chamberings (including 6.5X55!)...

I can't even understand HOW you can make a .50 BMG to even be chambered by a M/94/98/38, and even by a M/98, as the BOLT HEAD IS SMALLER THAN THE CASE HEAD!
Please, quit talking things you don't know about!

Now, of the M/94/96/38 the OP is referring to, many are NOT REWORKED. All the sporting guns built by HVA (Husqvarna) are real sporting rifles, made of BRAND NEW, in the white actions. These are fine actions, as long as you treat them right.
All of the factory rifles (except those made the Kimber, whish in the past, a lot have developped ste back over abuse) of European origin are tested under the CIP norm (even if Sweden is not part of CIP, they follow the same rules), which means a static pressure test of 1.15 the MAP (Maximum Average Pressure) and a proof test load of 1.25 time the MAP.
As a built-in security "device", the Mauser actions were designed and built with very soft (core and a thiny anti-wear surface hardening), low carbon steel, and they typically start creating excessive headspace (set-back) before letting go.
Then, in case of a case head failure, pray for the top of the front ring to stay were it's supposed to be and if not, for the receiver to bend to hold the bolt away from the shooter's face.
As per said before, it will withstand normal service and some abuse without flinching. But, pleae do not cross the line - at least if you intend shooting beside me.

I do hunt and shoot those rifles (a.k.a. M/46/ 46A and 640 - most of my rifles are factory chambered for 9.3X62) and they work great.

Sorry, I had to state it.

 

[nowarningshot]

Wow, now i would say that is a mouthful. Never seen him get so worked up. If anyone on this board knows about small ring/husky/gustav rifles...thats the guy. Too these rifles what Hoytcannon is too handi's.

I personally think those rifles out of tradex would be wonderful, well built, quality craftsmanship, and using metals of higher quality than the early M96 military actions from pre WW1.

So my take on Baribal...great rifles....dont worry....work up your loads...all good.

 

[bordam]

baribal, nowarningshot,
I agree 100% with you. My post was quick and not very clear.
They don't put 50 BMG on m96 they put almost all cartridges "standard length" (30-06 length) on this action 30-06 head and 300 win mag head...it was - to try only to see the limits on "normal" use with all these cartridges... and usually they are not more than 60 000 pressure. Now - is the m96 safer than m98 - NO, but it is safe to shoot with all calibers that HVA put on their sporters...
baribal your explication:

"Now, of the M/94/96/38 the OP is referring to, many are NOT REWORKED. All the sporting guns built by HVA (Husqvarna) are real sporting rifles, made of BRAND NEW, in the white actions. These are fine actions, as long as you treat them right.
All of the factory rifles (except those made the Kimber, whish in the past, a lot have developped ste back over abuse) of European origin are tested under the CIP norm (even if Sweden is not part of CIP, they follow the same rules), which means a static pressure test of 1.15 the MAP (Maximum Average Pressure) and a proof test load of 1.25 time the MAP.
As a built-in security "device", the Mauser actions were designed and built with very soft (core and a thiny anti-wear surface hardening), low carbon steel, and they typically start creating excessive headspace (set-back) before letting go.
Then, in case of a case head failure, pray for the top of the front ring to stay were it's supposed to be and if not, for the receiver to bend to hold the bolt away from the shooter's face.
As per said before, it will withstand normal service and some abuse without flinching. But, pleae do not cross the line - at least if you intend shooting beside me. "

is all I wanted to say but I was not clear. Your post i better than mine. Sorry about that.

happy shooting

 

[Baribal]

baribal, nowarningshot,
I agree 100% with you. My post was quick and not very clear.
They don't put 50 BMG on m96 they put almost all cartridges "standard length" (30-06 length) on this action 30-06 head and 300 win mag head...it was - to try only to see the limits on "normal" use with all these cartridges... and usually they are not more than 60 000 pressure. Now - is the m96 safer than m98 - NO, but it is safe to shoot with all calibers that HVA put on their sporters...
baribal your explication:

"Now, of the M/94/96/38 the OP is referring to, many are NOT REWORKED. All the sporting guns built by HVA (Husqvarna) are real sporting rifles, made of BRAND NEW, in the white actions. These are fine actions, as long as you treat them right.
All of the factory rifles (except those made the Kimber, whish in the past, a lot have developped ste back over abuse) of European origin are tested under the CIP norm (even if Sweden is not part of CIP, they follow the same rules), which means a static pressure test of 1.15 the MAP (Maximum Average Pressure) and a proof test load of 1.25 time the MAP.
As a built-in security "device", the Mauser actions were designed and built with very soft (core and a thiny anti-wear surface hardening), low carbon steel, and they typically start creating excessive headspace (set-back) before letting go.
Then, in case of a case head failure, pray for the top of the front ring to stay were it's supposed to be and if not, for the receiver to bend to hold the bolt away from the shooter's face.
As per said before, it will withstand normal service and some abuse without flinching. But, pleae do not cross the line - at least if you intend shooting beside me. "

is all I wanted to say but I was not clear. Your post i better than mine. Sorry about that.

happy shooting

OK, then, I am sorry if I misread you, but still, the M/94/96/38 action will NOT easily handle cartridges based on the '06 - as the standard magazine lenght is 3.240".
The fact that an action can withstand a proof load does not mean it will be safe to repetedly shoot high pressure cartridges, as it's meant to find possible material defect (like gross cracks and/or material / heat treatment flaws). Resistance to fatigue (plastic deformation) is the real thing.


Nowarningshot,
Actually, the material used for the M/94/96/38 is one of the purest low carbon steel in the world. The Swede developped a very high skill in finding, extracting and smelting the iron ore. But the steel used in the rifles is pretty close to our SAE/AISI 1022/1024, while the M/98 uses a steel between SAE/AISI 1034/1036. The heart of the Mauser design is a soft core (about 34 HRC) to prevent shattering and a hard surface to prevent erosion. While the lugs area can reach up to 55 HRC, the thickness of the case hardening rarely goes above 0.006" deep. Lap the lugs and you may en in the "soft spot".
After WWII, the metallurgy changed a lot, which permitted the introduction of the 1600 series small ring action, which is the one action used for Magnum chamberings. But still, even before they managed to chamber the 1600 with Magnum calibers, they went with more escaping gas capabilities and a third lug, à la M/98.
And you're right about my thinkking; respect the beast and feed it right and it will provide you with a lifetime of useful service.