Trading up or down?

thehunterman

thehunterman

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Seeing as my winchester model 70(post 64)308 just wont shoot the way I would like a hunting rifle too and my winchester 94 is of little use to me(pre 64 restored condition) I have decided to trade them in for one of the savage11/111 trophy hunter packages with a weaver scope and I have come to the ultimate choice............WHAT CALIBER! also one of my favorite choices to have to make,so give my your recommendations.I would like something that I can shoot lots without developing a flinch(I started catching myself flinching even with the 308 after a box of rounds so I guess I am a little sensitive) and ideally I wont have to buy a seperate rifle just to hunt bear with so what are my options?is a 25-06 a decent bear cartridge? like I say I like to shoot alot to get to know a rifles ins and outs so something pleasant to shoot is good.
Thanks,
Hunter.
 
if your thinking modern, 260 and 7mm-08 are fantastic, you should have no trouble with a flinch, with either one of these.
older, 257 Roberts, 7x57 and 25-06, all just as fantastic.
I have all of these in my shooter collection. I draw the line at 30-06, as that is where my recoil sensitivety says that I should do so! You will appreciate a top quality scope, right from day one. Happy shoot'n. :)
 
Consider taking up reloading. You can then easily load light loads for your model 70 in 308. I think the 308 round is very versatile and maybe you should persue why the model 70 ain't shooting right. Just my thoughts.

BTW, Many of us could develop a flinch if we sit at the bench shooting stout 308 loads all day. Especially after a hard night on the Guiness. Nothing to be ashamed of.
 
warrenb said:
Consider taking up reloading. You can then easily load light loads for your model 70 in 308. I think the 308 round is very versatile and maybe you should persue why the model 70 ain't shooting right. Just my thoughts.

BTW, Many of us could develop a flinch if we sit at the bench shooting stout 308 loads all day. Especially after a hard night on the Guiness. Nothing to be ashamed of.
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don't get me wrong I love the both of the rifle but the previous owners did not know how to care for a rifle and both the bores look like concrete sidewalks,I am getting about a 3 to 4 inch group at 50 yards with both and thats a long ways from hunting accuracy even for close up NB bush.
I was leaning towards the 25-06 because thats what caught my eye but they also had 260rem,270win,308:eek: , 7mm 08,6.5 creedmore and 6.5X284 norma. seems like the manning up and going back to the 308 might be an option (the model 70's recoil pad had a consistency similar to tht of iron) or maybe the 270.
Thanks,
Hunter.
 
two-dogs said:
if your thinking modern, 260 and 7mm-08 are fantastic, you should have no trouble with a flinch, with either one of these.
older, 257 Roberts, 7x57 and 25-06, all just as fantastic.
I have all of these in my shooter collection. I draw the line at 30-06, as that is where my recoil sensitivety says that I should do so! You will appreciate a top quality scope, right from day one. Happy shoot'n. :)
Click to expand...

Yyyyyup!

Add the 6.5 X 55 to that list, too!
 
I have used the 6.5X55 as a hunting round for years and it is excellent. Flat shooter, excellent potential accuracy and lots of hitting power. I still used one for sheep hunting at very long distance.

The 270 and the 25-06 are all just smaller 30-06's... same case. Lots more recoil than most smaller cases.

The best gun in the world won't be worth a pinch of coon sh*t if you have a flinch. Get a shooting friend to coach your technique and remember as far as calibers go, the 30 WCF (30-30) has taken every type of game on this continent for the last 114 years. With a well placed shot, you can kill with nearly anything.
 
Another vote for the 6.5x55. 270 ? c'mon guys a 270 has just as much recoil as a 30-06 and definitely kicks harder than a 308. Good luck with your new rifle.
 
I had settled on the 6.5x55 just because I liked the specs and the history of the round and was going to buy a swede mauser,but it seems they don't have that chambering in the savages I am looking at.Really the flinching is not a huge problem exept when I am practicing after 15-20 rounds I'll start catching myself so maybe I should just go with the 308 and ease off shooting lots as I do like the caliber as far as the specs go.
anyway I am going to go up the the gun dealer soon so I guess I'll see what they have there and what feels right and then make my decision.
Thanks,
Hunter.
 
thehunterman said:
Seeing as my winchester model 70(post 64)308 just wont shoot the way I would like a hunting rifle too and my winchester 94 is of little use to me(pre 64 restored condition) I have decided to trade them in for one of the savage11/111 trophy hunter packages with a weaver scope and I have come to the ultimate choice............WHAT CALIBER! also one of my favorite choices to have to make,so give my your recommendations.I would like something that I can shoot lots without developing a flinch(I started catching myself flinching even with the 308 after a box of rounds so I guess I am a little sensitive) and ideally I wont have to buy a seperate rifle just to hunt bear with so what are my options?is a 25-06 a decent bear cartridge? like I say I like to shoot alot to get to know a rifles ins and outs so something pleasant to shoot is good

Thanks,
Hunter.
Click to expand...

If it was me I'd stick with a .308 or a .30/06 and handload my ammo to a level that wouldn't be disturbing due to blast and recoil. Light bullets kick less than heavy bullets, and shooting light bullets at lower velocities lessen both recoil and blast. Consider the loads that I taught my grandson to shoot with; 125 and 130 gr bullets loaded to 2600, or 195 gr cast bullets loaded to 1800 fps.

So much for recoil, now lets look at accuracy. Typically you would use a .308 on big game out to 300 yards. Even a smallish big game animal presents a target size of about 12" on a broadside shot. If your rifle shoots consistent 4" groups at 100 yards, chances are it will print all its shots in 12" at 300. Now here's the thing about a 4" group, particularly one that is made with 5 shots; 80% of those bullets will be within an inch of your aiming point and the remaining 20% will be within 2".

If I was you I'd stop shooting groups. The only purpose it seems to have in your case is to destroy the confidence you have in your rifle and your ability to use it. Rather than shooting groups at bullseye targets, put up a large piece of cardboard with no aiming mark on it, and shoot 2 shots at it as quickly as you can from a supported field position. Then after checking the placement, wander off and fire another two shots at it from a different range, a different angle, and from a different position.

Do this for a couple of weeks with ammo you can tolerate, and I bet you become a better than average game shot, and it won’t take long before you can tolerate full powered ammo. If on the other hand you're looking for an excuse to purchase a new rifle, something between a 6.5X55 and a .270 sounds about right.

Again back to the recoil boogeyman . . . blast tends to be more upsetting to most people than the bump on the shoulder. But the bump on the shoulder is best mitigated through proper rifle fit to the shooter, a quality recoil pad. Be sure the scope is not too close to your eyebrow when you shoot. Although the eye relief might be adjusted optimally when you holding the rifle off hand, shooting prone or shooting at an uphill angle brings the ocular closer to you. My rule of thumb is not to have the ocular behind the cocking piece of a bolt gun, or at the very worst, not behind the rear bow of the trigger guard.
 
Boomer said:
If it was me I'd stick with a .308 or a .30/06 and handload my ammo to a level that wouldn't be disturbing due to blast and recoil. Light bullets kick less than heavy bullets, and shooting light bullets at lower velocities lessen both recoil and blast. Consider the loads that I taught my grandson to shoot with; 125 and 130 gr bullets loaded to 2600, or 195 gr cast bullets loaded to 1800 fps.

So much for recoil, now lets look at accuracy. Typically you would use a .308 on big game out to 300 yards. Even a smallish big game animal presents a target size of about 12" on a broadside shot. If your rifle shoots consistent 4" groups at 100 yards, chances are it will print all its shots in 12" at 300. Now here's the thing about a 4" group, particularly one that is made with 5 shots; 80% of those bullets will be within an inch of your aiming point and the remaining 20% will be within 2".

If I was you I'd stop shooting groups. The only purpose it seems to have in your case is to destroy the confidence you have in your rifle and your ability to use it. Rather than shooting groups at bullseye targets, put up a large piece of cardboard with no aiming mark on it, and shoot 2 shots at it as quickly as you can from a supported field position. Then after checking the placement, wander off and fire another two shots at it from a different range, a different angle, and from a different position.

Do this for a couple of weeks with ammo you can tolerate, and I bet you become a better than average game shot, and it won’t take long before you can tolerate full powered ammo. If on the other hand you're looking for an excuse to purchase a new rifle, something between a 6.5X55 and a .270 sounds about right.

Again back to the recoil boogeyman . . . blast tends to be more upsetting to most people than the bump on the shoulder. But the bump on the shoulder is best mitigated through proper rifle fit to the shooter, a quality recoil pad. Be sure the scope is not too close to your eyebrow when you shoot. Although the eye relief might be adjusted optimally when you holding the rifle off hand, shooting prone or shooting at an uphill angle brings the ocular closer to you. My rule of thumb is not to have the ocular behind the cocking piece of a bolt gun, or at the very worst, not behind the rear bow of the trigger guard.
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He said he is getting 3-4 inch groups at 50 YARDS. Unless his rifle has a damaged crown the barrel is toast. Cheapest way out is a rebarrel, keeping with the short action the 7mm 08 would be a good choice if recoil bothers him.
 
I think the difference in recoil between a .308 and a 7-08 is pretty much imaginary, and while it depends on the weight of bullet being fired, any bullet weight fired in either cartridge will produce the same recoil in rifles of the same weight. I didn't respond to the OP's thread regarding the level of accuracy he observed because we don't know what the circumstances where at the time he was shooting. 3"-4" groups at 50 yards is about all some folks can manage offhand for instance. We don't know if he had an issue with his sights, scope, or scope mounts. We don't know if his rifle has bedding issues, there's many possibilities beyond a poor barrel.
 
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