Traditions Hawkens .50 questions

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Hey folks

New to the site, and also new to black powder and the civilian world in general. After many years in the forces I'm retired and looking to hunt. I've actually grown quite bored of the modern firearms and figured buying a hawkens and just getting a hunter safety course is the way to go for me.(cant challenge it here unfortunately...I may just go for coffee and come back for the test).

Being late to the hunter safety I'll be out of the draw for caribou or moose this year; so I started thinking about small game for later this year. I can't see a wad with shot working when it exits the barrel as its gonna come out spinning. Is there any sorta sabot for shot that would work like a smoothbore. I can't see a safety problem with it...but just don't see the physics going well. However as I said although Ive taught upteen million gunnery courses and most applies I figured I'd throw it out there and see if there is anything for it.

Next question has to do with if the above cant work (which I expect it wont). If a wildlife officer stops me while hunting with a hawkens an I got a .49 ball loaded; wouldn't I get in trouble for going after large game? I am a little uncertain of regulations on ammo you can use on small game. I've only ever seen minimum pounds for bows and FPS for firearms...never bullet size. Can I nail a arctic hare with a 50? Reason I ask is if not I gotta sweet talk a smoothbore outta my wife...and as you all know its a tad epensive starting off from scratch..and itaint gonna be easy!

And finally if all thats a fail....anyone know a real cheap smoothbore for sale?

cheers in advance guys
 
My best advice to you is to find some black powder shooters near to you and have them embrace you as a newbie and then you will decide what you want to do.
 
I have been shooting Flint Lock and Cap lock front suffers for about 10 years. Here is my advise. Get yourself a Lyman Great Plains Hawken either in cap lock or flint lock in 54 caliber. The Great Plains rifle has a 1-66 twist and is set up for patched round ball only. The Great Plains Hunter is set up for 460grain Great Plains Bullets with a 1-32 twist. I own both rifles and they are more accurate than I am. Both the patched round ball rifle and the bullet rifle will take any game in north America. I call my Great Plains Hunter, "Old Knock em Down". You load it up with 100 grains of holy black and a 460 grain bullet and touch er off and it will cross yur eyes and make U wish all yur kids were born with their clothes on. The Flint Lock rifle requires real black powder only and can be hard to get depending on where U live. The Cap Lock version of this rifle will eat black powder, pyrodex, or Hodgdon Triple 7. The later two are synthetic black powders and are available everywhere as they are considered to be propellents and not explosive like holy black is classified.. With a 54 U will not need sabot. Now the 54 Hawken can be hard to find. I do think that Elvin Epps one of the sponsors of this sight has em in stock or can order one for U. This caliber will cleanly take game out farther than U can shoot with primitive iron sights. I do get a great deal of satisfaction in hitting a 10 inch gong at 100 meters with a flintlock Hawken 54. Now as to a smooth bore they can be fun However shot is nearly impossible to find in Canada so U are pretty much limited to round ball. Round ball is inaccurate in a smooth bore unless U patch it and even then accuracy can be problematic. The 54 caliber Hawken is by no means a small game caliber. U hit a bunny with a 54 U probably will have a hard time finden it. This rifle was carried by the likes of Jim Bridger, Kit Carson, and the mountain men of the west. They found that the calibers commonly carried east of the Alleghenies and in the mountains of West Virgina just were not big enough for the critters found out west, 54 caliber and up ruled the day. Now I do believe that the British Standard of Ordnance with a smooth bore Brown Bess was something like 25 meters back in the 17 hundreds. Now having said that why not just avoid all the hassle and get a rifled front stuffer. . Good luck and if U have any questions just PM the Eaglesnester.

Cheers&Tighter Groups:

"Did the Indians put U here?" "Twernt Mormans".
 
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As to hunting small game - during the open season for deer. moose, bear (in Ontario) you can't use a rifle with more than 400 foot pounds of energy. That pretty much rules out a .50 cal.

As to shot in a rifled barrel - it can be done but the patterns suck and aren't worth the effort.

A load of 50 grs of FFg in a .50 cal is a great snowshoe load. It kills them dead without blowing up the meat.

Define "cheap" (for a smooth bore). Ellwood Epps has a Pedersoli 12 ga SxS for $625. It's been there a while - maybe you'd be able to make a deal. I have one - it's a really good upland game gun.

The cheapest smoothbore at Epps is a modern Knight TK2000 12 ga for $488.
 
I sense you might be in NFLD. As for the legality of using a 50 or 54 cal for small game during big game season you had best ask the fish cops in your province and go by that advice. I think in most places if you claimed to be hunting rabbits with a 30-30 during deer season and without a deer licence you would be charged with hunting big game without a licence, even if you had a dead bunny in your hand and no deer. If there is a minimum M/L caliber for moose and caribou, and your gun qualifies for big game on that basis then I would expect you would be charged. Good question for your firearms course or hunter safety course instructors but personally, I would get an answer straight from a conservation officer, whatever their title where you live. If you want to seriously hunt game as big as moose then get a 54 cal. even though a 50 certainly has killed lots of moose. Better for shot too.

Unprotected birdshot from a rifled barrel does spread quickly but if enclosed in an open-topped paper tube, like a modern plastic wad, will pattern a bit better. Roll some paper tubes around a dowel to just fit down the bore, glue one end shut then put in your shot charge and twist or tie the top shut to hold in the shot. After loading your powder, put in a cardboard wad and insert the shot charge on top but cut or tear off the top of the paper tube otherwise the shot may come out like a slug. Push a thin cardboard wad or wad of paper down on top of the shot to hold it in the barrel and tamp it tight. Shoot a couple of patterns on the snow to determine the effective range for your small game target.
 
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Folks thank you all for the wealth of information. I usually don't bother with internet forums; but this one seems like a bunch of adults...fantastic!

I got talking to a RCMP officer about this morning. He seems to think where it isnt a firearm you basically treat it like a pellet gun. And with a hunter safety course you could kill what you'd like with it. The hunting regulations in this province (Correct Newfoundland) barely if ever mention black powder hunting. Of course I read through them all before posing a few questions to you fine gentlemen.

I did run across another regulation that seemed very vague inregards to hunting coyotes here with black powder. (would love to spend a few days with me backpack and tent; back in the bush hunting em this spring.)

Regulations here state: "This licence permits hunters to hunt coyote using centrefire rifle calibres up to and including: 225 (i.e: .17 Rem, .22 Hornet, .204 Ruger, .218 Bee, .222 and .223 Rem., 223 WSSM, .22-250 Rem., .220 Swift, .224 Weatherby Mag., and .225 Win). Hunters using shotguns may only use No. 2 shot or larger (slugs are not permitted). Holders of a coyote shooting licence are not permitted to use rimfire rifles to hunt coyotes."

So with a 12 guage I could hunt em with a number 000 shot which has .36 ball. So wouldn't a .49 ball in my hawkens be legal as well? I sent a email off to the Dept in regads to this and will post what they say if they get back to me. However love to read your thoughts on this as well.

The other side of my thought process is going back to a flintlock not being considered a firearm. That gets me to thinking as long as I got a hunter safety I should be good?

Thoughts?
 
Yeah it doesnt make sense at all does it larry? Carrying a 22 hunting rabbits you can shoot coyotes...as soon as the rabbit season is over...can't use that rifle.... unreal.

I'm actually gonna take my FAC next week ( I wanna remington 870 now too). So the poor instructoris gonna get his ear talked off lol. The rules here on blackpowder are beyond vague.
 
and that's the confusing nature of these regulations. When regulations are written...it should be clear and concise with zero room for what is expected. These laws are unreal down here.
 
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