Trailboss in 45-70

dizzy dan 1

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If loading a cast bullet @ 7 or 800 feet per sec. fast enough for deer hunting& what about moose.Be a light load for a child.DAN>>>
 
I put 13 grains of TB under a 405 grain cast, but I have no idea how fast it's traveling...probably in the neighbourhood of 1000 fps. Think that if a .22 with a muzzle velocity of @1200-1300 will still be potentially lethal at 200+ yards, a much heavier bullet should also be inside 100. I'd try a deer at close ranges with that load, but I don't think I'd attempt anything larger.
 
Depends on the rifle. Trail Boss is used for Trapdoor loads up to 485 grains. Gives velocities a whole lot faster than 800 fps. A cast 300 grain bullet starts at 1199 fps. Mind you, a Trapdoor load will work just fine out of a stronger action.
13 grains of is a max load for a 405 grain cast bullet. Hodgdon gives 1007 fps. Starts at 971 with 12.0.
 
A child hunting moose with a 45-70?
On a 400 plus grain soft bullet killing a moose at 700 to 800 fps or so (impact velocity), yes, I'm sure it will do the job, placed correctly.
On a child being able to place the bullet where it would absolutely have to be placed, under the stress of an encounter with a moose at close range, well, maybe, if Dad was right there, and the moose was unawares, close, and at the right angle.
I think you best go shoot that load at a few different ranges. I think you will see a large problem with trajectory past 75 yards or so.
 
Ive done some playing around with my 45-70 and trail boss.
Here are MY results in MY marlin guide gun.
And here comes the disclaimer saying….. I take no responsibility for these loads a in any one elses rifle etc etc….
In this case I would say work the load down (not up) very carefully.


Powder: trail boss.
Bullets: 405 grain hard cast lead flat base flat nosed 3 lube grooves.

13 grains: 998 fps
12.5 grains: 960 fps
11.6 grains: 946 fps.

Powder: trail boss.
Bullet: 350grain hornaday flat point copper jacket.

14 grain: 980 fps
14.5 grain: 1015 fps.


The felt recoil in all these loads was extremely soft (in my opinion at least). I felt as if the gun was just nudging me back slightly more than jolt back.
 
I use 11 to 12 grains of unique behind a 340gr cast when I want nice slow soft recoiling loads that anyone can shoot. I think recoil and noise is similar or less than mild .44 mag shells out of a lever gun. They are great when you start to get the flinch from firing too many 1800+ fps loads.
 
Geez, after shooting my standard loads of a case full of 3031 under a 418 cast bullet I think those Trailboss loads would feel like 22LR.

Last year I shot a 14.8 grain Trail Boss load (behind a 375 grain (45-70) cast bullet) in a Shiloh Sharps No.1 (with a 28" barrel) next to a guy who was sighting in a .17HMR (we were both shooting at 100 yards).

Four comments come to mind: 1) the 45-70 was consistently putting them into a ragged hold in a 2" black bullseye at 100 yards; 2) the 45-70 was just plain quiet compared to the HMR (provoking a puzzled look and the comment "What is that???"). 3) it was a sub-sonic load in my rifle and cleanly burned up all its powder in the barrel. 4) It was a lot of fun to shoot and has (since then) worked consistently out to 400 yards (as far as I've shot this one).

Trail Boss is a very bulky powder and appears to be fast-burning, so I would stick with the manufacturer's recommendations (i.e. 13.0 gr with a cast 405gr cast bullet).

Would that be enough to take big game? I suspect that it would be fine for deer at "bush" distances (like from a blind or off a tree stand).

FWIW it would probably be enough for a broadside shot on a moose inside 75 or 100 yards (I wouldn't be surprised if it replicates muzzle loader ballistics). But, if a guy was specifically hunting moose, I'm pretty sure I'd choose something more potent for my 45-70 like a 350 Hornady RN with an appropriate load of Reloder 7.
 
Here is a really nice load to shoot in my 1895 marlin. 22.5 grains of 4227, powder backed with weatherstrip, 405 grain cast bullet at 100 metres.
The four are under an inch, centre to centre, and I'm sure the other one would have been in the same group, had I held the rifle better.
Unique004.jpg
 
Here is a really nice load to shoot in my 1895 marlin. 22.5 grains of 4227, powder backed with weatherstrip, 405 grain cast bullet at 100 metres.
The four are under an inch, centre to centre, and I'm sure the other one would have been in the same group, had I held the rifle better.
Unique004.jpg

What do you mean by "weatherstrip"? Is this rubber foam? Is it the same as egg crate material?

Does your Marlin have Ballard rifling or microgroove?
 
A-Zone.
The weather strip I refer to is designed to go around a door to stop the drafts. It is not rubberized, but is a grey coloured material like dacron? The building supply dealers have it, and I think they call it stop draft.
It is round, and comes either in packages, long enough to go around the door, or sometimes in bulk. The building supply I get it from has it in ½ inch diameter, which is just right for a 45. You cut off chunks about ½ inch long and it will easily squeeze into the case, on top of the powder.
Johnn Peterson told me about it and sent me a sample. But he couldn't get the ½ inch size where he lives, so he used the 5/8 size, but had to cut a vertical vee out of each piece, to get it to squeeze into the case.
 
I suspect that a 400 grain bullet, probably cast flat nose, at 1000 fps muzzle velocity, would work for deer, quite easily out to 100 yards. It is equivalent to a .44 magnum handgun, and we hear a lot of stories of hunting with that from the States. I would suspect that you would be better off sighting in for 50 yards and try to keep your shots within 75, just to avoid the trajectory problems.
I have no experience with moose, but this might be on the lower end of best practices, especially if you go to 700-900 fps muzzle velocity.
 
A-Zone.
The weather strip I refer to is designed to go around a door to stop the drafts. It is not rubberized, but is a grey coloured material like dacron? The building supply dealers have it, and I think they call it stop draft.
It is round, and comes either in packages, long enough to go around the door, or sometimes in bulk. The building supply I get it from has it in ½ inch diameter, which is just right for a 45. You cut off chunks about ½ inch long and it will easily squeeze into the case, on top of the powder.
Johnn Peterson told me about it and sent me a sample. But he couldn't get the ½ inch size where he lives, so he used the 5/8 size, but had to cut a vertical vee out of each piece, to get it to squeeze into the case.

Thanks H4831, I'll check out the local Revy.

A-zone
 
25grains of 2400 and a 400grain bullet gets you aroun 1300fps, ie factory load. Nice easy recoil and still no buffalos coming back to life!:D I get one in groups at 50yrds with this load, haven't tried it at 100 yet.

Cheers

Seabass
 
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