training hunting dogs

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5in1hole

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hey everyone i just purchased a golden retriever/lab mix whos parents are both hunting dogs but that is about as far as the hunting tradition goes with them.

Now i have a few questions

1) Is it possible to train a dog for hunting waterfoul, pheasent, and rabbits or should the dog be taught only one type of animal?

2) Are those obediance shock collars Ethical, legal in canada?

3) She is 4 months old is this too young? to old?

4) Any tips for training? i plan on training this pup myself and just basically dont want to screw it up.

5) and good canadian resources?


Thank you for having patience with my "newbie" questions but id rather look like an ask ;) then go into this blind
 
The first thing you need to train a dawg , it to be smarter than the dawg .:p
 
I have a golden / yellow lab mix and I must have got a gift from heaven because he has been fantastic to train , smart as a wip, and listens well.
Lot's of guys (not all) will tell you the dog is useless because it's not pure but I've go proof that this is not always the case.
as far as training him for other animals, I have had luck with just birds (Duck , Geese, and ruffed grouse-Louey's favorite). Had him tracking deer and he followed a fresh bow shot deer good but it was not his forte. Rabbits did not go so great either as he will only chase them for 50- 60 yards and give up. if the rabbit is shot he will have no trouble retrieving but that is what he is.

Ducks, geese, and grouse, he plows through the mighty St lawrence river with the currents, big waves and does not give up until I say so.
Camper
 
The book I used was called "The Ten Minute Retriever". Google it and it will explain several different methods to train and give you the pros and cons.

Three things I have found,

You will catch more flies with honey than a stick

Once when you get frustrated, stop training, play a bit to end on a positive note and and call it a night.

last. Keep the sessions short. The book explains this and I strongly reccomend you order it.

camper
 
here are my two babies they are sisters from the litter and 16 weeks old

phprGiqMsPM.jpg
 
1) Is it possible to train a dog for hunting waterfoul, pheasent, and rabbits or should the dog be taught only one type of animal?
I think you should stick to birds. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a retriever and that's what it does best.


2) Are those obediance shock collars Ethical, legal in canada?

Yes I have one and use it. It is one of the best things to come along in dog training but it is also the most DANGEROUS things to come along in dog training. You do NOT used an shock collar (e-collar) for teaching. The dog must already clearly know the command. The collar is used for correction NOT teaching. Don't even get one until you know and would bet someone that your dog will follow the commands. Sit, stay, come, down, heel. Are you ready to bet me $50 that he will do as you say?
If you don't know what you are doing, you can ruin a dog for life in an afternoon with a e-collar.

3) She is 4 months old is this too young? to old?
That's the same time as I got my pup. No, not too old. Spend time having fun, playing and bonding. Work on some fun drills

4) Any tips for training? i plan on training this pup myself and just basically dont want to screw it up.
I will second the book "The 10 Minute Retriever" by Amy Dahl. Here is her website http://www.oakhillkennel.com/

The other name to look at is Mike Lardy. http://www.totalretriever.com/

I would HIGHLY recommend joining a local chapter of the North American Hunting Retriever Club. http://www.hrc-ukc.com/ I knew nothing before I went out to one of their training days. What I like about HRC is that it was conceived BY hunter FOR hunters. You dont' have to go to the organized tests. But the other thing I liked was that the tests are judged "pass" or "fail" so their is no competition between members. People are there to help you. But be warned, it is addicting.

Obedience is the key to everything. You need to be consistent. I trained my Lab with no previous experience. Yes, it is a lot of work. But, if you work at it just a few minutes each day, you will be successful.
It is such a pleasure having a dog that understands commands...an even follows them most of the time :D Not just for hunting but just to take on family outings. Good luck:wave:
 
If you want your dog to bring birds back to you, never play tug-o-war. EVER. They will never drop your bird, and will think its a game. And its never too young for a puppy to learn how to retrieve.
 
On the rabbits issue, my father has a Lab (humane society lab, maybe a mix) who hunts rabbits quite well, but some of her other skills have suffered, she wanders a little far from the gun when hunting upland birds and she may chase rabbits when you are trying to hunt pheasants.
Her water skills are excellent considering how little training she has.
 
The trick is to beat him like he owes you money...

Just jokin'...

My dog is a black lab and i've had him in my blind since he was 2 months old (he's almost a year now). He is great at retrieving... and spotting the birds.. i could just watch him and know when birds are coming, he just sits down and calmly stares up at them. I use him on everything, for rabbits he basically just pushes them through the brush for me. Pheasents and grouse, it's almost like he points and sneaks up, an inch at a time until i tell him to flush. I think he is too smart for his own good.

Remeber to always make it fun for the dog, and the learning never stops with labs.

my two cents- Brent
 
Sweet looking dogs there 5in1.. :)

The guys have given some great advice so far. I'd go with the recommended reading and probably look for more too. When I was a kid my dad had a series of Chesapeak Bay retreivers that were trained for bird hunting, and I've had experience with several other labish type creatures in bird hunting. I'll just reafirm a couple of things here..

As said in other words you will catch more flys with honey. Its challanging, but try not to loose your patience. If you start getting frustrated/pissed off take a break in the training for that day. And ya, you don't need marathon sessions rather do a little bit every day.

Get the come, sit, stay thing going on and then start with a toy for retrieving. This will likely come very naturally but there will be a few bad habits to break. As said never play tug of war. Never chase them to get the toy. Stick to the basics consistantly: come, sit, stay. At this point add a new command: "drop it". It will take some time but in the end you want the toy brought to you and dropped at your feet. Also, always use hand signals with your commands. Eventually just hand signals will work. :cool:

The next little issue is that the first retrieved bird might look like it got hit by a Kenworth when (if) you get it back from a youngster. Lets fact it, the instinct will be to tear the sucker up and eat it! My dad's technique from word one was to make 'dummys' with a little chunk of 2x4 with nails driven in and protruding a bit, say 3/4". Then he put that in a canvas bag, sewed it up and attached some grouse or duck wings to the outside of it. Sound a little cruel? I don't think it is, play around with a design so that if the dog really chomps down on it they'll get poked. The puppy will learn quite quickly and naturally how to be "soft mouthed".

Have fun with it man! And don't forget there's got to be lots of full on play time! The dogs need time to run and screw around and bark. They really need this I think. Just work on it so they'll work when its work time and after an "OK" or some other such command they can play..
 
What you put in is what you'll get out, and training starts at day one.

Although my Vizsla was a pointer most of the same principles and training techniques apply.

Like the other fellas said:
1.) Be consistant in your training and commands.
2.) Get the basic commands down.
3.) Be patient.

I would train my dog every day for at least an hour, but I would end every training session down at the park with lots of fun and play time. After about 2 years all I would use was hand signals and after about 4 years the dog became almost telepathic! I'm serious, he could predict everything that was going to happen at home or in the field(creatures of habit).

Once you get the basics down you can train your dog to do anything.

Ivo
 
I have some good dog training sheetson pdf send me an pm with e mail and they are yours!
I work on the praise and practise method, I never castigate unless I catch the dog doing something bad such as fighting and I dont use a collar. I know this falls foul of the professional Canadian Field Trailling community view but I dont beat a dog into submission either. Think that the dog is a permanent 2 year old child and you will get there quicker with less heartache!
 
You can train your dog to hunt all species, although it's likely to be a better waterfowl dog than a pheasant / pointing dog.

4 months is not too young to train a dog. Acutally, you should start at 8 weeks with basic obedience and build from there. Come, Sit, Stay, Fetch...

Electronic / shock collars are ethical and commonly used with hunting dogs in Canada. They range in price from $200 - $1000 depending on what you want. Dogtra and Tritronics are popular brands that make good quality products that will last. Learn to use it effectively. A dog should only receive a shock when they know a command, but choose not to do it.

Read some books, take your dog to obedience classes, expose your dogs to wild birds, water and retreiving bumpers, dummies or wings.

I wrote a reply to a previous inquiry about hunting dog training and listed lots of good books and DVDs for hunting dogs with mostly a pointing dog slant. Check it out http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107912 and PM me if you have questions.
 
To be a good retriever your dog should naturally want to do it. You can train for retrieving but the hallmark of a good retriever is a natural drive to go and get the bird, rabbit, chunk of firewood, whatever. My dog will TRY to retrieve whatever I point him at (you should have seen the look on his face when I said "Fetch it up" while pointing at the downed cow moose :evil: ).

To test it out, get a dummy of some sort (even rolled up socks will work to start) and take the pup into a narrow hallway, blocked at one end and with you at the other. Hold the dog beside you and toss the dummy down the hall. Let the dog go with the command you prefer (I started with "Fetch him up" but now use my dog's name) and see if the dog gets the dummy. Chances are the pup will run and grab the dummy and then try to run past you DO NOT LET THEM GET PAST YOU. Instead intercept the pup and very gently work the dummy from their mouths with lots of praise. Do this a couple of times a day to start and NEVER play tug of war or just let the dog run around with the dummy.

Later get about 50 feet of rope and attach it to the dog so that when you start on longer retrieves you can "reel them in" should they attempt to run around with the dummy.

That's a start. If the pup won't naturally go after the dummy though they won't likely make a great retriever.
 
Oh and when you get into an actual hunting situation, learn to trust the dog. The number of times I've wildly given hand signals to get the dog to go where I "thought' the duck was only to have him bring one back 40 to 50 yards from where I saw it fall.:rolleyes:
 
The dogs as a rule are fine, I find its the owners I have difficulty training. The problem we have here is people living in a city/town house and buying a pedigree hunting dog. I'll sell them that pup, as long as its going to a good home where it will be looked after well, it doesnt stop me wondering if I sold the wrong one and kept the one pup from the litter that wont retreive. For an all purpose dog a Lab is pretty unbeatable for all game species. Thats not easy to type as a spaniel breeder. The tale goes: Labs are born half trained, Spaniels die half trained!"
Get a decent whistle Acme 210 or similar and train the dog to the whistle from an early age. My youngest came out on the beating line all season and that was from 5 months. Now at 9 months I'm starting the lead work and they are taking to it really well. Obedience classes are ok but one where there is 30 pups and owners in a village hall costing £25 an hour is pointless. A good trainer will do one to one and no more than half an hour an day.
The pup tires/gets bored easily and it always should be fun. Lots of praise.
Oh and did I say lots of praise.
Eventually if the dog has taken to the training take him out amongst game. Keep him on a lead and let him know that its not play time. Return to a game free area and let him play of the lead. Remember that the dog will only be able to learn about 7 commands. use them sparingly and only when sure of an obediant reaction. Dont give a command that the dog wont understand or will disobey. Better to curtail training for the day than confuse the dog. Always start each session with basic heel and lead work for 5 mins. It gets them in the mood. It also checks that play streak that he will have.
 
Training a dog is one thing, but time spent with that dog reinforcing that training is entirely another.

I see families who both the owners work all day leaving the dog alone. Don't buy a dog, leave it in a kennal all day and expect it to be responsive to training when you get home. There is no such thing as spending too much time with a puppy.

I bought a training collar for my lab when she was about 14 months old. She already knew all the cammands, but was at a stage were she wanted to challenge my authourity and ignore the whistle and commands. The collar was used for correction only and had to be used very little, but the results were very positive. She still wears the collar when she walks (she walks off lead all the time), and the collar is used to reinforce our commands if she decides to ignore us.


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