Transportation

winchesterjones

winchesterjones

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I've gotten a million different opinions over the years on transporting a handgun. I've recieved tons of handguns from EE ranging from locked up tighter then Fort Knox to zero locks at all.

Now the question lies with zip ties ? Where exactly do they fall. I've even received a firearm from a sponsor with a zip tie as a lock!!! I keep my handguns trigger locked but as for the case does a zip tie actually hold up if I get pulled over ?
 
Tom 1 said:
You seem to be confusing transporting a firearm with shipping a firearm. I would suggest that you check out this link: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

Tom
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response Tom. I've been curious about this as well - and I couldn't find any reference to shipping in your linked fact sheet. It occurs to me that, at least in my case, I have to transport it to the post office with an STATT, so moot point unless I want to take it out and repack it at the post office. :rolleyes:

I suppose that wouldn't apply for businesses where the parcel is picked up from the point of origin. I did ask a prominent commercial seller about twist ties and he told me the rules were different for retailers. Really?

From a practical standpoint, I doubt most cheapie locks would be any harder to remove than a twist tie - but at least they would make it hard to argue the gun wasn't locked.

To be honest, I've done both, but moving forward, a cheap lock saves me a little lost sleep - and I like my sleep.

Rob!
 
For the price of $10 trigger lock & padock vs the loss of a $500 - $1,300 handgun I know what I would do and not worry about exceeding the requirements or not. A lock ends the discussion.

Take Care

Bob
 
Sadly this is one of those cases where the provincial CFO sets the rules.

Here in BC a zip tie qualifies for locking a gun against being cycled or allowing the to be trigger pulled. Ontario perhaps not so much. Here in BC at least a few years ago a soft handgun fold over cover with the zipper zip tied to prevent opening was considered as being a suitably locked and secure transport container when combined with the gun also being locked in some manner. Not sure if that is still the situation or not. Other provinces? Who knows.
 
BCRider said:
Sadly this is one of those cases where the provincial CFO sets the rules.

Here in BC a zip tie qualifies for locking a gun against being cycled or allowing the to be trigger pulled. Ontario perhaps not so much. Here in BC at least a few years ago a soft handgun fold over cover with the zipper zip tied to prevent opening was considered as being a suitably locked and secure transport container when combined with the gun also being locked in some manner. Not sure if that is still the situation or not. Other provinces? Who knows.
Click to expand...

This is the problem in a nutshell. Allowing CFO's to set regulations results in a different set of rules for every province.
 
shawn said:
That is not the law this is:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/f-11.6/

The RCMP site should never be used as legal reference.

Shawn
Click to expand...

Seems to accurately reflect the regulations as caveated on the web site:

Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations
SOR/98-209

Transportation of Restricted Firearms
11 An individual may transport a restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is rendered inoperable by means of a secure
locking device;
(c) it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or in- to or accidentally opened during transportation; and
(d) if it is in a container described in paragraph (c) that is in an unattended vehicle,
(i) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the container is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked, and
(ii) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the container, is securely locked and the container is not visible from outside the vehicle.

Shipping by Post
16 An individual may ship a firearm by posting it only if
(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;
(b) the destination is within Canada; and
(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.
SOR/2004-277, s. 4.


Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations SOR/98-210

Transportation of Restricted Firearms and Prohibited Handguns
12 (1) A business may transport a restricted firearm or a prohibited handgun only if
(a) it is unloaded; and
(b) it is in a container
(i) that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it can- not be readily broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation, and
(ii) that, subject to subsection (2), does not have any markings on its exterior that could indicate that a weapon, a prohibited device or ammunition is in it; and
(c) when it is in a container described in paragraph (b) that is in an unattended vehicle,
(i) if the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the con- tainer is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked, and
(ii) if the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the vehicle, or the part of the vehicle that contains the container, is securely locked and the container is not visible from outside the vehicle.

(2) Subparagraph (1)(b)(ii) does not apply if
(a) the only marking on the exterior of the container that could indicate that a weapon, a prohibited device or ammunition is contained in it is a name or address; or
(b) the container and its contents are being imported into Canada or exported from Canada.

Shipping by Post
15 A business may ship a firearm by posting it only if
(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted
firearm or prohibited handgun;
(b) the destination is within Canada; and
(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to ob- tain a signature on delivery.
SOR/2004-278, s. 5.


in terms of locks, both regs define it as:

"secure locking device means a device
(a) that can only be opened or released by the use of an electronic, magnetic or mechanical key or by set- ting the device in accordance with an alphabetical or numerical combination; and
(b) that, when applied to a firearm, prevents the firearm from being discharged. (dispositif de ver- rouillage sécuritaire)"


So no, I'd say a zip tie doesn't cut it.
 
Last edited:
Well son-of-a-gun. Thanks for posting that. If I read it correctly, transportation is part and parcel of shipping - and businesses are indeed held to a different standard. Whod'a thunk it?

Rob!
 
Don't want to high jack the thread but what about trigger locks on guns such as M1A/M305/M1/and most lever actions. The usual trigger locks are next to useless just open trigger guard or work the lever lock comes right of. My self I use cable locks through the action or wrapped through lever and around the wrist. But It has been a subject of debate with a few friends. And I don't like leaving bolt open on a M1A/M305/M1 compressing the spring for long periods. What is legal?
 
wce323078 said:
Don't want to high jack the thread but what about trigger locks on guns such as M1A/M305/M1/and most lever actions. The usual trigger locks are next to useless just open trigger guard or work the lever lock comes right of. My self I use cable locks through the action or wrapped through lever and around the wrist. But It has been a subject of debate with a few friends. And I don't like leaving bolt open on a M1A/M305/M1 compressing the spring for long periods. What is legal?
Click to expand...

If you are transporting non-restricted they need to be unloaded.

Transportation of Non-Restricted Firearms
10 (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if

(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and

(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), an individual may transport a non-restricted firearm in an unattended vehicle only if

(a) when the vehicle is equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is in that trunk or compartment and the trunk or compartment is securely locked; and

(b) when the vehicle is not equipped with a trunk or similar compartment that can be securely locked, the non-restricted firearm is not visible from outside the vehicle and the vehicle, or the part that contains the non-restricted firearm, is securely locked.
 
Guns are sold with cable locks and Ruger revolvers come with a lock that goes through the cylinder. I can't imagine any officer getting upset if your gun had a cable through the breach area and locked in place preventing the gun from being able to be fired. I would think our officers have some common sense. The ones I run into from time to time seem to be pretty normal folks.

Take Care

Bob
 
gdawg said:
Seems to accurately reflect the regulations as caveated on the web site:
Click to expand...

Currently it does, but that is only because of us.

It has been and most likely will again in the future be purposefully misleading and incorrect. They can put what ever they want on their website

They even tell you so themselves:

This fact sheet is intended to provide general information. For legal references, please refer to the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations. Provincial, territorial and municipal laws, regulations and policies may also apply.
Click to expand...

Shawn
 
wce323078 said:
Don't want to high jack the thread but what about trigger locks on guns such as M1A/M305/M1/and most lever actions. The usual trigger locks are next to useless just open trigger guard or work the lever lock comes right of. My self I use cable locks through the action or wrapped through lever and around the wrist. But It has been a subject of debate with a few friends. And I don't like leaving bolt open on a M1A/M305/M1 compressing the spring for long periods. What is legal?
Click to expand...

Debate about what?

No where is any law does it say trigger lock

Shawn
 
shawn said:
Debate about what?

No where is any law does it say trigger lock

Shawn
Click to expand...

Exactly. To be fair to the RCMP, they have to interpret the damn law just like we do.

Seems to me it is pretty straight forward. If you are transporting restricted or prohibs they better be locked up to the point where they can not be fired and in a locked container. Beyond that drive carefully and go about your business. The only time I have ever been stopped by police is a) When I was speeding, b) at Christmas when they set up their Drinking and Driving programs and c) when they were looking for someone and had a roadblock on Hwy 16. I suspect this would describe 99.9% of those members on this site. Just saying.

Take Care

Bob
 
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