Triple Shock X- Leveling the playing field...
- Thread starter Gatehouse
- Start date
- Location
- Coquitlam, BC
how does one do penetration tests?
Does that answer your question?
A 210 gr TSX is the same length as a 250 grain Nosler Partition
It's one of the most sucessfull hunting bullets we have ever had, and one of the first true "premiums". It's a good standard to compare to.
shortaction
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoulin Island, Ontario
I am ordering some 130gr TTSX for my 300WSM for a sheep hunt. Currently I use 168 or 180gr TSX, but I like the idea of a 3400=3500 fps load
You shot anythig bigger with them?
What powder are you using?
Gatehouse
Nothing bigger than deer (4 deer and 1 coyote). Of the 4 deer the farthest was the one I referred to and the next 1 was 280 yds and the the other 2 where a pair of fawns at just a tad over 200 yds.
I was using a Model 70 Classic Sporter with VX-II 2-7x33 - Winchester Brass & Winchester Magnum Primers - 65.5 gr Varget with the C.O.L. at 2.84".
I developed this load before there was any load info for the TSX but the new data from Barnes shows a Load range of 61gr @ 3280fps - 66gr @ 3516fpsof Varget with an C.O.L. of 2.85" and recommends using a factory crimp die to lightly crimp the neck due to the short shank on the 130gr TSX. I did use a Lee factory crimp die but the dies where RCBS.
I shot my loads over my chrono and they averaged just a hair over 3400fps so maybe my barrel was just a tad slow.
Hope the helps.
Shortaction
I have some 250gr Partition Golds that are longer (1.43") than the 225gr TSX, (1.416")
I may do some tests on the .225gr TSX in the next couple weeks, after the chrony gets here. I'm hoping they'll be around 2700fps or close to it.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The Partition has a long and distinguished reputation as a killer of big game. But I am curious to see if the wound volume from the Partition is the equal of the TSX. If however I was conducting the test, I would choose bullets of equal weight, but I think I see where Gate is headed with this. In any case, my money is on the TSX, and the reason is that the Partition is designed to loose mass as it penetrates. Given equal impact velocities, the heavier bullet would normally penetrate deeper. The TSX expands rapidly as soon as it encounters fluid bearing tissue, but the expanded frontal areas stays intact, provided petals are not broken off, which means that this bullet will produce a wider wound cavity as it penetrates. I anticipate that the football shaped portion of the wound cavity will be shorter when produced by the Partition and longer when produced by the TSX, while I anticipate that the maximum width would be similar in both cases. The reason for this is that "if" the initial expansion takes place in the same amount of time for both bullets, the front core of the Partition is gone long before the velocity drops to subsonic at which time the tissue is displaced only by the unexpanded diameter of the rear core, and not by a super-sonic shock-wave. Therefore the TSX while super-sonic out penetrates the Partition because of it's additional mass, and larger super-sonic shock-wave displacing the tissue ahead of it. I have some .243 and 7MM Partitions on my bench, so some testing might be in order if it ever warms up around here.
I've only shot a couple of dozen TSX in .25 and .30 into gel. All penetrated through 35 inches of gel, without a doubt the king of penetration short of a solid. All shed some petals, 2 or 4 was most common and 20 to 27 inches was the occurance window. None of the bullet paths showed any enlarged permanent cavity at any point through the gel, wound channels were uniform and relatively caliber sized. I've never got any back so I couldn't measure expansion. Wound channels on other style bullets had the typical football permanent channel starting at 1" of penetration and terminating around 8" on average. Bullets that "fragged" or shed some weight (Partition, BT, Interbond) had better permanent wound channels than those that didn't (TBBC, A-Frame). All of these bullets were recovered at 24 to 28" and all were expanded to 2 times caliber or more.
The TSX has me scratching my head.
After recover a few (338 and 375) TSX's from broadside shots on game I decided to perform my own tests.
My results were similar to yours with the TSX leaving a long broadhead like wound through gel while the Partitions and Accubonds left slightly shorter gaping holes. What really messes with my head is that thought the TSX penetrates further in gel I have recovered several from broadside shots in moose and elk yet I have never recovered a Partition (338 and 375) from a broadside moose or elk?
The other thing that counteracts penetration tests is that from my experience the TSX definitely tears up (shreds) more meat and vitals than the Accubond or Partition....Quite often it looks like a bomb went off in the animal. Last year I shot a whitetail and completely removed the off side shoulder (as in vaporized) and found the lower leg some 10 yards behind the animal....I've never seen anything like this before.
Something else that has become apparent is that the TSX functions much more violently at higher velocities in that game seems to be hit harder. If you look at an expanded X bullet it resembles a broadhead and I think at high velocity the space between the petals effectively becomes restricted by hydraulic resistance (or super-sonic-shock-wave as Boomer suggests) effectively giving the expanded bullet more frontal area (at high velocity).....At least that is my theory.
Don't believe me?
Load your 338 Win with both 185 and 250 grain TSX then shoot some game. The animals shot with a 250 will have pipe like holes while the 185's will shred the animal's internals (resulting in more "bang flops").
Don't get me wrong I like the TSX and I really like the way it puts game down, but I'm not sure what to expect from it yet. I think I am retrieving more TSX's because they don't like to go through skin as well as a Partition (it's smaller).
After recover a few (338 and 375) TSX's from broadside shots on game I decided to perform my own tests.
My results were similar to yours with the TSX leaving a long broadhead like wound through gel while the Partitions and Accubonds left slightly shorter gaping holes. What really messes with my head is that thought the TSX penetrates further in gel I have recovered several from broadside shots in moose and elk yet I have never recovered a Partition (338 and 375) from a broadside moose or elk?
The other thing that counteracts penetration tests is that from my experience the TSX definitely tears up (shreds) more meat and vitals than the Accubond or Partition....Quite often it looks like a bomb went off in the animal. Last year I shot a whitetail and completely removed the off side shoulder (as in vaporized) and found the lower leg some 10 yards behind the animal....I've never seen anything like this before.
Something else that has become apparent is that the TSX functions much more violently at higher velocities in that game seems to be hit harder. If you look at an expanded X bullet it resembles a broadhead and I think at high velocity the space between the petals effectively becomes restricted by hydraulic resistance (or super-sonic-shock-wave as Boomer suggests) effectively giving the expanded bullet more frontal area (at high velocity).....At least that is my theory.
Don't believe me?
Load your 338 Win with both 185 and 250 grain TSX then shoot some game. The animals shot with a 250 will have pipe like holes while the 185's will shred the animal's internals (resulting in more "bang flops").
Don't get me wrong I like the TSX and I really like the way it puts game down, but I'm not sure what to expect from it yet. I think I am retrieving more TSX's because they don't like to go through skin as well as a Partition (it's smaller).
I never have recovered many partitions, X bullets or TSX, but I htink that is probably correct. The partition goes through the skin because it's front has peeled back alongside the shank, leaving less bullet there.
I've only shot 3 animals with the TSXs. I normally use Partitions but have gone to the TSX for the last couple of years. So far I'd say the TSXs are much more destructive. A lot more shredded meat as opposed to bloodshot. 2 were 210 .338s and one was a 160 .284. The 160 .284 was mass destruction even at very long range.
Holy Toledo! That certainly isn't "eat right up to the hole" performance is it?
I was hunting elk in wide open country with a serious wide open country elk rifle and load..... when the little fella stepped out.
He didn't go far.
I tied it to my pack whole and carried it 11km out to base camp...I was pretty upset about it actually. I don't like to waste meat and I don't head shot game....Perhaps I should have.
I'll be reading this thread with interest. I have been using Partitions for the past 15 years, in both my '06 and my .338 WM.
I have seriously been considering making the move to Barns TSX's but the one thing holding me back is... i've never had to shoot a big game animal more than once with the tried and tested Partition. I've shot deer from 20 yards to moose at 524 yards (measured with a Leica rangerfinder) and all have been one shot clean kills (luckilly). I have yet to recover a bullet...
So if I understand correctly, the only reason you guys are thinking of switching would be to get some higher velocities... other than that, I can't see much of a point.
On a side note, is the TSX considered the best X-Bullet for big game? Im not too familiar with the Barnes bullet line.
I have seriously been considering making the move to Barns TSX's but the one thing holding me back is... i've never had to shoot a big game animal more than once with the tried and tested Partition. I've shot deer from 20 yards to moose at 524 yards (measured with a Leica rangerfinder) and all have been one shot clean kills (luckilly). I have yet to recover a bullet...
So if I understand correctly, the only reason you guys are thinking of switching would be to get some higher velocities... other than that, I can't see much of a point.
On a side note, is the TSX considered the best X-Bullet for big game? Im not too familiar with the Barnes bullet line.
