Troubleshooting SVT40 Extraction Issues

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Beadwindow

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Greetings everyone and happy Easter!

I just thought I'd write to see if people here could help me troubleshoot towards finding the precise cause and cure of extraction/ejection issues with my 1941 Tula SVT40 refurb.

I took the rifle out once about a year ago and had no luck getting it to extract without a mallet. At the time I discovered that my initial cleaning of the rifle still needed to get at the cosmoline in th chamber flutes, so I did a much more thorough cleaning and put her away. I should note that cleaning her out really chewed up the wires at the end of my Garand combo tool, so do keep that in mind if you clean the chamber with a brush!

I took the rifle out again two weekends ago and had some progress. We figured that the rifle would partially extract and then slam the fired case back into the chamber, which then needed to be tapped out. After a while, we found that the rifle would extract to the point where the front of the case would catch against the edge of the chamber and hold the action open (kind of like a stovepipe except that the case was facing down the length of the receiver). The progress went so far as two or three proper extractions, but that was out of maybe 40-50 rounds fired.

The ammunition used was laquered Czech silvertip, five rounds of some copper-washed surplus ball that a friend was shooting, and two rounds of Sellier and Bellot 180gr SP. There was no noticable difference between the results with brass or laquered cases and no sign of burrs in the chamber. The springs operating the bolt and gas system weren't stiff, and the gas settings used were 1.5 (initially) and 1.7 (the latter giving the 2-3 positive extractions). In the process of shooting, I did learn of the importance of tightly locking the gas system in place and properly aligning the gas ajustment setting, so those issues could be eliminated as teh reason for my problems.

So what gives? Clean chamber, different ammos, properly tightened gas system at higher settings and yet I still couldn't get consistent extraction, turning it inot a slow single shot with a mallet or wood to open the chamber with. At least the gun showed some suprprising accuracy despite the having to bring out the mallet between shots, notwithstanding a dark bore with strong rifling.

I should add that I was at the range with a friend who regularly rebuilds numerous Chinese M14s, ARs and other rifles, who though not an expert on Soviet firearms was able to walk me through much troubleshooting and observing what the rifle was doing. All he could see as a cure would be to open up the highest gas setting, though imagining the scacity of that part, and wanting to get the rifle working at its regular gas setting am at a loss as to what to do. Can anyone here advise?

The rifle seemed like a great buy (about $300 out the door at Epps) and it looks like it will be accurate enough (at least 2-3 MOA with suprlus ammo) once I get get her shooting normally. It feels pretty good in the hand and might become my favourite shooter once the bugs are worked out.

Please help....I'd greatly appreciate it!

Thanks,

Frank
 
Well if you have to hit it with a mallet it's not the gas system. The only thing I could imagine it being is a issue with the chamber, either a burr you missed or it has a bulge or something. Give epps a phone call.
 
That is odd, seems like more than a gas issue. 2 of mine run perfectly at 1.3, and my 1941 Tula runs at 1.5 nicely. Do all the parts in your rifle look good? Any funny looking springs, bent rods, etc?
 
Beadwindow said:
Greetings everyone and happy Easter!

I just thought I'd write to see if people here could help me troubleshoot towards finding the precise cause and cure of extraction/ejection issues with my 1941 Tula SVT40 refurb.

I took the rifle out once about a year ago and had no luck getting it to extract without a mallet. At the time I discovered that my initial cleaning of the rifle still needed to get at the cosmoline in th chamber flutes, so I did a much more thorough cleaning and put her away. I should note that cleaning her out really chewed up the wires at the end of my Garand combo tool, so do keep that in mind if you clean the chamber with a brush!

I took the rifle out again two weekends ago and had some progress. We figured that the rifle would partially extract and then slam the fired case back into the chamber, which then needed to be tapped out. After a while, we found that the rifle would extract to the point where the front of the case would catch against the edge of the chamber and hold the action open (kind of like a stovepipe except that the case was facing down the length of the receiver). The progress went so far as two or three proper extractions, but that was out of maybe 40-50 rounds fired.

The ammunition used was laquered Czech silvertip, five rounds of some copper-washed surplus ball that a friend was shooting, and two rounds of Sellier and Bellot 180gr SP. There was no noticable difference between the results with brass or laquered cases and no sign of burrs in the chamber. The springs operating the bolt and gas system weren't stiff, and the gas settings used were 1.5 (initially) and 1.7 (the latter giving the 2-3 positive extractions). In the process of shooting, I did learn of the importance of tightly locking the gas system in place and properly aligning the gas ajustment setting, so those issues could be eliminated as teh reason for my problems.

So what gives? Clean chamber, different ammos, properly tightened gas system at higher settings and yet I still couldn't get consistent extraction, turning it inot a slow single shot with a mallet or wood to open the chamber with. At least the gun showed some suprprising accuracy despite the having to bring out the mallet between shots, notwithstanding a dark bore with strong rifling.

I should add that I was at the range with a friend who regularly rebuilds numerous Chinese M14s, ARs and other rifles, who though not an expert on Soviet firearms was able to walk me through much troubleshooting and observing what the rifle was doing. All he could see as a cure would be to open up the highest gas setting, though imagining the scacity of that part, and wanting to get the rifle working at its regular gas setting am at a loss as to what to do. Can anyone here advise?

The rifle seemed like a great buy (about $300 out the door at Epps) and it looks like it will be accurate enough (at least 2-3 MOA with suprlus ammo) once I get get her shooting normally. It feels pretty good in the hand and might become my favourite shooter once the bugs are worked out.

Please help....I'd greatly appreciate it!

Thanks,

Frank
Click to expand...
You gas regulator is well cleaned? Normally at 1.5 the tokarev should fonction perfectly. Check the inside on the piston to be sure there's no corrosion that could prevent the piston to move freely and if all is clean, check chamber again for corrosion or a burr, clean again with lacquer thiner and maybe a .410 shotgun brush on a electric drill. If there a burr, maybe can be polished smooth.

Jocelyn
 
i had the same problem with extraction...a fellow CGN'er recommended i try the "3" setting....he told me it worked for him...set mine on "3" and haven't had a problem since
 
I just had mine out last week. Using the:
Russian copper washed steel jacketed 147gr ammo, worked perfect. Gas system at 1.5
Hungarian copper washed steel cased182 gr heavyball, worked perfect. Gas system at 1.5
S & B 180 gr SP brass case, work fine. Gas at 1.5

Czech 147gr silver tip, grey steel case, same day, same gas adjustment, every round got stuck length wise between the bolt carrier and the top of the chamber.
No idea why. Switched back to the other ammo and the rifle continued to run fine.

My conclusion was to run the czech silver in my mosin.......no other ideas.
 
Thanks fellows for all of the suggestions. Here's my thought on what you've written:

1. "Well if you have to hit it with a mallet it's not the gas system. The only thing I could imagine it being is a issue with the chamber, either a burr you missed or it has a bulge or something. Give epps a phone call."

I'm inclined to disagree with this one on account of what we've witnessed. The mallet comes into play when the action goes rearward after the shot but not enough to eject the case. It seems as though the bolt then slams forward again with fired/expanded case that then gets stuck in chamber tight enough to need assistance to remove. A friend observing my shots noted that this was happening whenever there was no stovepiping or ejection.

2. "That is odd, seems like more than a gas issue. 2 of mine run perfectly at 1.3, and my 1941 Tula runs at 1.5 nicely. Do all the parts in your rifle look good? Any funny looking springs, bent rods, etc?"

Nothing looked out of place on the rifle. The piece that regulates the gas setting had to be readjusted and the gas system tightened at one point, which I'm now more aware about, but it didn't solve the problem. I'll take at least one more look at everything and post more questions if I find anything funny.

3. "You gas regulator is well cleaned? Normally at 1.5 the tokarev should fonction perfectly. Check the inside on the piston to be sure there's no corrosion that could prevent the piston to move freely and if all is clean, check chamber again for corrosion or a burr, clean again with lacquer thiner and maybe a .410 shotgun brush on a electric drill. If there a burr, maybe can be polished smooth."

In addition to double checking the gas piston, I'll try cleaning the chamber with lacquer thiner. I'm not sure if the shape of the receiver would allow a drill to spin a brush can be done like with a bolt gun, but would be happy to hear if anyone knows how to get around that.

4. "i had the same problem with extraction...a fellow CGN'er recommended i try the "3" setting....he told me it worked for him...set mine on "3" and haven't had a problem since."

I presume that means the 1.3 setting. Perhaps the lower setting could be the solution....I'm only speculating but perhaps the action moves back and forth too quickly under the faster setting, which could explain some of the cases being caught with the front end stuck agains the edge of the chamber.

5. "I just had mine out last week. Using the:
Russian copper washed steel jacketed 147gr ammo, worked perfect. Gas system at 1.5
Hungarian copper washed steel cased182 gr heavyball, worked perfect. Gas system at 1.5
S & B 180 gr SP brass case, work fine. Gas at 1.5

Czech 147gr silver tip, grey steel case, same day, same gas adjustment, every round got stuck length wise between the bolt carrier and the top of the chamber.
No idea why. Switched back to the other ammo and the rifle continued to run fine.

My conclusion was to run the czech silver in my mosin.......no other ideas."

I picked up two cases of the latest Russian shipments that just recently sold out, but didn't have any with me the day at the range. If that ammo works, I've got a few Mosins that would be able to make use of the Czech while the SVTs could shoot the Russian. If the Russian ammo shoots and extracts at normal gas settings without any troubles, I'd stick to using it, perhaps going back periodically to a few rounds of Czech ball to see if there's been any change.

Thanks for everyone's input. I will keep you informed as to whether it makes any difference.

Cheers,

Frank
 
Beadwindow said:
Thanks fellows for all of the suggestions. Here's my thought on what you've written:

1. "Well if you have to hit it with a mallet it's not the gas system. The only thing I could imagine it being is a issue with the chamber, either a burr you missed or it has a bulge or something. Give epps a phone call."

I'm inclined to disagree with this one on account of what we've witnessed. The mallet comes into play when the action goes rearward after the shot but not enough to eject the case. It seems as though the bolt then slams forward again with fired/expanded case that then gets stuck in chamber tight enough to need assistance to remove. A friend observing my shots noted that this was happening whenever there was no stovepiping or ejection.

2. "That is odd, seems like more than a gas issue. 2 of mine run perfectly at 1.3, and my 1941 Tula runs at 1.5 nicely. Do all the parts in your rifle look good? Any funny looking springs, bent rods, etc?"

Nothing looked out of place on the rifle. The piece that regulates the gas setting had to be readjusted and the gas system tightened at one point, which I'm now more aware about, but it didn't solve the problem. I'll take at least one more look at everything and post more questions if I find anything funny.

3. "You gas regulator is well cleaned? Normally at 1.5 the tokarev should fonction perfectly. Check the inside on the piston to be sure there's no corrosion that could prevent the piston to move freely and if all is clean, check chamber again for corrosion or a burr, clean again with lacquer thiner and maybe a .410 shotgun brush on a electric drill. If there a burr, maybe can be polished smooth."

In addition to double checking the gas piston, I'll try cleaning the chamber with lacquer thiner. I'm not sure if the shape of the receiver would allow a drill to spin a brush can be done like with a bolt gun, but would be happy to hear if anyone knows how to get around that.

4. "i had the same problem with extraction...a fellow CGN'er recommended i try the "3" setting....he told me it worked for him...set mine on "3" and haven't had a problem since."

I presume that means the 1.3 setting. Perhaps the lower setting could be the solution....I'm only speculating but perhaps the action moves back and forth too quickly under the faster setting, which could explain some of the cases being caught with the front end stuck agains the edge of the chamber.

5. "I just had mine out last week. Using the:
Russian copper washed steel jacketed 147gr ammo, worked perfect. Gas system at 1.5
Hungarian copper washed steel cased182 gr heavyball, worked perfect. Gas system at 1.5
S & B 180 gr SP brass case, work fine. Gas at 1.5

Czech 147gr silver tip, grey steel case, same day, same gas adjustment, every round got stuck length wise between the bolt carrier and the top of the chamber.
No idea why. Switched back to the other ammo and the rifle continued to run fine.

My conclusion was to run the czech silver in my mosin.......no other ideas."

I picked up two cases of the latest Russian shipments that just recently sold out, but didn't have any with me the day at the range. If that ammo works, I've got a few Mosins that would be able to make use of the Czech while the SVTs could shoot the Russian. If the Russian ammo shoots and extracts at normal gas settings without any troubles, I'd stick to using it, perhaps going back periodically to a few rounds of Czech ball to see if there's been any change.

Thanks for everyone's input. I will keep you informed as to whether it makes any difference.

Cheers,

Frank
Click to expand...
To brush your chamber with a drill, remove the rear cover and bolt carrier assembly and swing the little door at the rear of receiver, then you will be able to pass a cleaming rod by,screw a .410 brush on the rod and use a drill to spin the brush in chamber. So far, i have no issues with lacquered ammo in my Tokarev yet.
Jocelyn
 
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