Troublesome attempt at EE transaction

adamthaggan

adamthaggan

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North of Canadas stabbing capital, MB
Hello all

I’m quite sure this is in the wrong section, however I couldn’t post this in the EE FAQs for some reason unknown to me so I apologize in advance. Anyway, I contacted a seller looking to purchase a restricted gun in EE. The first thing seller asked for was a scan of my pal, and payment. To me, big red flag. Also This being my first attempt at a purchase through EE, I’m cautious. I asked for some info from the seller before sending funds and he immediately backed out. My question is, is this normal?

My thinking is, CFP specifically told me not to give anyone a copy of my pal. Period. This fella may not even have the item for sale, he accepts EMT and poof he’s gone. And all I have is a screen name. Is asking for a name and pal # to initiate a transaction too much? I can’t figure out what nefarious plans I could concoct with that information alone. Anyway, any information or light shed on my concerns is very appreciated. I’d very much like to get an EE purchase under my belt for personal knowledge, obviously equipment acquisition and experience points with CGN.

Thanks in advance.
Adam
 
The only information he needs to initiate a restricted transfer is your full name and pal number. They usually also ask for a contact phone number. NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED!

For verifying a pal holder for a non-restricted, you need their name, pal number with .000X and expiration date. NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED!

Source: I actually asked the CFO.

What some do is this:

Seller asks buyer for pal information.
Buyer sends EMT to seller (no password given)
Seller calls the CFO to initiate transfer
Buyer calls the CFO to complete transfer
Buyer sends EMT password to seller.




If a seller won't do it because you give out the required information, and not a scan/etc; well it wasn't meant to be, so move on.


I would also report that seller to the CGN admins (not make it public), just in case it is a scam.

Also, be VERY careful when assuming something can't be done because of "that information alone". You can look up a lot of information with a person's name, location, etc.


For you first(s) EE exchanges, maybe try a non-restricted, or accessory, or non-gun related?

I can sell you some self-sealing stem bolts, a box of frequencies, or a Continuum Transfunctioner ;)
 
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tharkhold said:
The only information he needs to initiate a restricted transfer is your full name and pal number. They usually also ask for a contact phone number. NOTHING ELSE IS REQUIRED!
Click to expand...

Huh. I didn't know that! I've done a couple of transactions for my restricteds through ####### and the buyers didn't have an issue sending me a picture of their PAL, strategically placed so with their personal info (like DOB and Address) on the card wasn't visible but it ensured that their PAL was valid and that they had the proper license.
To OP - yeah, if the seller immediately wants your info without, for me at least, talking a bit about what they have and perhaps haggling or whatever, and just wants your money, I'd say it's a bit of a red flag. Especially since they didn't want to tell you more about the item when you asked - that to me is the biggest red flag.
 
If I’m selling a restricted, and buyer says I’ll take it.
I want your info ,for transfer purposes.
And I want EMT ,with password, before I transfer anything.

If I’m buying,and say I’ll take it.
I’ll send my info , EMT with password.

If there’s no I’ll take it, I’m assuming your interested but not committed.
So ,no need to trade any info, other than pics of item,ask questions,etc.
 
I've always paid/received in full before transfers started.
I wouldn't ever send a pic of any of my ID, or expect it from someone. The full pal number, exp date and name written in an email is enough to call and initiate (or verify a n/r)
 
A scan of your PAL is not necessary. The seller does need enough information to begin the transfer with the CFP.

Do not send payment without knowing who the seller is. Sending an EMT to an email address without knowing anything more about the seller is foolish. It is how people get scammed.
You must know with whom you are dealing. Talk to the person.

The seller will need lots of information about you. PAL data, mailing address matching the one associated with your PAL, etc.

Your feedback score is 0. If I were selling a firearm to you, I would certainly need to know exactly who you are.

If you feel at all uneasy about a transaction, walk away. If you suspect fraud, click on the ! in triangle post report icon, and describe your concerns.
 
Brianma65,

It’s startling that you, or anyone would expect someone to fork over personal information and a handful of cash without any collateral to leverage. As far as I know there may not even be a firearm. You grab my info and cash and high tail it. I figure both parties should trade name, license # and phone #. Then buyer sends EMT, no password. Seller initiates transfer, buyer confirms. Once transfer is complete, password is given, EMT complete then firearm mailed.

This way, at every stage each party has a fallback. If I default on payment the transfer is cancelled. If the item doesn’t exist then CFP won’t transfer and I don’t lose funds. I would think most crooks are after money, as opposed to causing legal conundrums. I figure if I’m willing to put forth my money, information and phone number so we can talk then initiating a legal transfer should be peanuts for the seller, but it massively corroborates information for the buyer.
 
adamthaggan said:
Brianma65,

It’s startling that you, or anyone would expect someone to fork over personal information and a handful of cash without any collateral to leverage. As far as I know there may not even be a firearm. You grab my info and cash and high tail it. I figure both parties should trade name, license # and phone #. Then buyer sends EMT, no password. Seller initiates transfer, buyer confirms. Once transfer is complete, password is given, EMT complete then firearm mailed.

This way, at every stage each party has a fallback. If I default on payment the transfer is cancelled. If the item doesn’t exist then CFP won’t transfer and I don’t lose funds. I would think most crooks are after money, as opposed to causing legal conundrums. I figure if I’m willing to put forth my money, information and phone number so we can talk then initiating a legal transfer should be peanuts for the seller, but it massively corroborates information for the buyer.
Click to expand...


If this is how you choose to conduct a transaction, do it this way.

You may or may not find members who agree with this process, but that is fine.
 
adamthaggan said:
Brianma65,

It’s startling that you, or anyone would expect someone to fork over personal information and a handful of cash without any collateral to leverage. As far as I know there may not even be a firearm. You grab my info and cash and high tail it. I figure both parties should trade name, license # and phone #. Then buyer sends EMT, no password. Seller initiates transfer, buyer confirms. Once transfer is complete, password is given, EMT complete then firearm mailed.

This way, at every stage each party has a fallback. If I default on payment the transfer is cancelled. If the item doesn’t exist then CFP won’t transfer and I don’t lose funds. I would think most crooks are after money, as opposed to causing legal conundrums. I figure if I’m willing to put forth my money, information and phone number so we can talk then initiating a legal transfer should be peanuts for the seller, but it massively corroborates information for the buyer.
Click to expand...
I always give the buyer my personal info,pics etc.
If I’m buyer, I usually trust the Itrader rating.




Unless of course it’s a high ticket item, then I may want to have a phone conversation.

Also ,I’m not to concerned about the less costly items,as I think if someone is scamming,they’re going for the bigger bucks.

I just made a trade with another CGN,er,with a high 100% rating.

Very few words were exchanged.
I’m comfortable with it.

Sending an EMT
without password , is useless, cost $3 to cancel
 
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OP did the right thing asking for seller info. A phone call often solve most of the problems. A pic with something current in the picture can prove they have the item.
I would be cautious using adamthaggans method. You will be told to pound sand and miss out on good deals. Why someone with zero trader rating would open their yap? You know more than they do.
Only risk what you are willing to loose and take advantage of the trader ratings.
 
Tharkhold

I’m all full up on transfunctioners lol got em from Zoltan himself!

I’ve heard that point before about buying other items to build a repertoire in anticipation of, I don’t know higher regulated items? I can understand that having a history may coax a bit of ease from a seller but I’d argue that purchasing my way up the hierarchy of personal inventory seems a bit silly. By comparison, a thousand dolllar box of frequencies carries the same weight as a restricted firearm, or a non restricted. Both transactions require some give and take and therefore trust from both parties, and exchange of funds. The burden of legality of the transaction is mediated by the CFP and so it should be as they’re the authority that inflicted the regulations on us in the first place. And we have to place some faith in that system I suppose, albeit with a fist full of personal responsibility.
 
Sure,someone could fluff up their rating, buying and selling low ticket items.
But that consumes time.
I don’t think most scammers have the engery for that:)
 
Brianma65 said:
Sending an EMT
without password , is useless, cost $3 to cancel
Click to expand...

Remember, several banks now offer 'No Password' EMT- Even though on {Your} end, you still create the Security Question/Answer- on theirs, they DO Not need it! For the OP, we all started out at Zero. I had someone ask me for MY Pal info when I was selling a NR- I said No, even started thread on it I think lol. I offered my email/phone # etc. but I thought that was silly, considering I had a High Trader rating. I didnt send them a pic of my PAL. If a seller just straight away says Send Money/PAL etc. without a Normal/commonsense convo. with you, maybe he has been getting allot of Pavement Pounders that have No or Low ratings, & is simply being Frustrated. Just let him know you are 100% highly interested & ask for Cell # to text, have him text you some additional info/picz etc. Ask for his Full name for the EMT as YOUR Bank requires Full name/email & Cell to conduct an EMT...& if the item he's selling is as advertised, you Will buy. If you get those 3 things, which should be Acceptable to Any seller. Also, if they have a few years & a good trader rating, I wouldnt worry about it. Good Luck with the EE!
 
Brianma65 said:
Very few words were exchanged.
I’m comfortable with it.

Sending an EMT
without password , is useless, cost $3 to cancel
Click to expand...

I understand they can be cancelled. But the transfer can in turn be cancelled aswell then we’re back to square one. I’d certainly like to obtain the feedback rating required to have a smooth transaction but I have to start somewhere, and I’d prefer to do it with out throwing my cash and info to the wind and hoping for the best. I guess the whole purpose of this post is to put forth my concerns and the remedies I’ve thought up and get you and your kinds take on them. Also I really do appreciate all the feedback. It makes this site feel a little bit less like approaching a previously uncontactes potentially canabalistic tribe and asking if we can be friends.
 
Johnyy

I did ask for a phone number, name and license number and that I wasnt comfortable sending a scan of my PAL and was told that the transaction wouldn’t work. I think it was in the sense that they were just backing out. It just raised some red flags based on what information I have. I’ve spent probably 2 hours on the phone with the CFP over a few calls in the last week asking questions, that being my source
 
Just the other day I was looking at buying a non restricted off EE.....guy would not even move any further without a copy of my PAL....told him all I need to send you is my name and PAL number.....he would not accept that....and this a a member of CGN with over 100 feedbacks all 100%......NO DEAL.......a full pic of my PAL will NEVER be sent
 
willisjake said:
OP did the right thing asking for seller info. A phone call often solve most of the problems. A pic with something current in the picture can prove they have the item.
I would be cautious using adamthaggans method. You will be told to pound sand and miss out on good deals. Why someone with zero trader rating would open their yap? You know more than they do.
Only risk what you are willing to loose and take advantage of the trader ratings.
Click to expand...

Do you mean why would I open my yap? If so then because I have questions and concerns. If that wasn’t for me then sorry, I misunderstood. How would you go about a transaction? I wouldn’t give information and money to anyone with the hopes that they’d fulfill their end of the bargain aside from personal friends, family or friends of friends. Someone who’s character can be corroborated. The only evidence I’d have is a screen name and an EMT to an email that can be deleted. It should go without saying that I appreciate the feedback and I’m not here to stir any pot. Only to ask questions, learn a thing or two and participate in the forums.
 
This is interesting.

Last time I ordered a firearm online from a dealer I had to send a scanned copy of my PAL they said the information wasn't enough alone and it was one of the dealer sponsors above in the banner.
 
Ironheart said:
Just the other day I was looking at buying a non restricted off EE.....guy would not even move any further without a copy of my PAL....told him all I need to send you is my name and PAL number.....he would not accept that....and this a a member of CGN with over 100 feedbacks all 100%......NO DEAL.......a full pic of my PAL will NEVER be sent
Click to expand...

I agree. I won’t ever do it either. Personally it’s a no brainer but also on direct advice from the CFP. I’m sure most or hopefully some of the sellers are genuine CGN gurus/veterans. But it only takes one scammer to ruin your day. I’ve been told this site has a problem with scammers and frankly, to stay away from it. And the more I think about it, I realize that may be why I left the forums 5 years ago. (I sounds like an old codger lol) do you find scammers to be a problem on the EE?
 
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