Trudeau's Gun Ban and Buy Back

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Legit I didn't even realize the join date lol. We should be accepting of alternate viewpoints here, but the fact that he joined just to support liberals is odd af

Why should we be accepting alternative viewpoints? The left wants us disarmed and dead.

Wow. The level of right wing paranoia and extreme views here is really sad. Not that it's any of your business but yeah, I joined in June. Wanted to get back into target shooting which I used to do as a student. Did my safety course in May, sent my PAL paperwork in June and got it approved in late July. I've now bought two handguns and a rifle and joined a range to go enjoy a sport I was interested in. But if this community is only full of paranoid, insulting and ignorant right wingers who aren't able to hold an intelligent and polite discussion of actual facts then you can have it. Maybe guns should be banned as I don't know if guys like you are mature enough to have them. Also, the attitudes you express will do little to win you support and open ears from people outside the shooting community. Your guns don't exist in a vacuum and there are multiple issues in other areas that are of concern to Canadians. If you aren't willing to listen to ideas and opinions outside your world view then you have already lost and will feed into increasing polarization rather than working with your fellow Canadians to find solutions to multiple problems and situations. Good luck.
 
He is not getting reelected.

Based on Today's polls, it is HIGHLY likely the Trudeau will get re-elected.

The Federal government does not have the power to ban anything in municipalities, city's, or towns. Only the premier's of the province have that power.

You are on the right track, but not quite right. The government DOES have the power to ban things under the criminal law in municipalities cities or towns. What it can't do is download the ability to make those laws to the municipalities. Parliament could create a process where by towns can request the ban, and the government may or may not accept.

What it absolutely cant do is let municipalities create their own criminal law.

And you are also correct that anything to be done in relation to municipalities MUST be with the consent of the premieres. ANd with 7 out of ten premieres being recently elected Conservatives and one Green, it is highly unlikely that Trudeau is going to get very far negotiating with premieres over something that will significantly increase policing costs in this municipalities without any increased funding for law enforcement.

This promise to let cities ban handguns is a blatantly gratuitous promise akin to the failed promise for electoral reform. Its the kind of thing that any adult who is actually familiar knows that it is A) virtually impossible, and B) completely impossible by an inexperienced dilettante like Trudeau who lacks the skill and intelligence and competent team to pull off such a difficult proposal.

How exactly is trudeau ###ist? He appointed more women to cabinet positions and positions of influence than any other prime minister in history.

How is it racist? Some costumes that were part of plays or to portray characters? Intent matters a great deal and people of colour who were with him at the time have said they were not offended or didn't see anything wrong with it. Now if you want to talk racism, we can look at Conservative and PPC candidates that associate with white supremacists or are anti immmigrant etc.

Irresponsible? Sure. On some fronts absolutely. But that's not exclusive to the Liberals and evidence suggests the Conservatives would also be irresponsible on a number of fronts.

###ist because when his mail cabinet ministers tell him that his ideas are bad, he listens to them, and when his female cabinet ministers tell him that his ideas are bad, he fires them and kicks them out of caucus.

As for blackface being racist, you must have been living under a rock for the last 100 years. Even Trudeau himself said that the practice of blackface is ALWAYS racist. Intent? The intent of blackface has always been to profit, either financially, personally or socially, from the telling of stories and portrayal of stories that are not your own, which is fraud, while specifically denying the ability of the people who identify with those stories from telling them themselves.

Historically blackface started because black people were legally prohibited from acting in performances geared towards white audiences. Have you heard of slavery? Have you heard of Segregation? Blackface specifically grew out of the consequences of those policies. Regardless of whether Trudeau intended to offend people, the point is that he intended to use those stories and those narratives in order to endear himself to an audience of rich white people for personal gain.

Further, it does not matter that one person was not offended. What matters is that millions of people WERE offended.

And while many people were quick to excuse trudeau of this transgression because it was almost twenty years ago, it bears repeating that blackface was known as a racist practice and has been actively protested by social justice advocates (like the kind Trudeau claims to be), for more than 100 years.

It is unfathomable to me that I could have learned in school in the 80s that blackface was a detestable and racist practice, and that Trudeau as a teacher in 2001 could not have known that this would be offensive. Lets not forget that in 2019, Trudeau apologized by blaming his ignorance on white privilege, as if society was to blame for his ignorance, and limited his apology to only those instances for which he had been caught, and then lied about how many times he had done it, before finally admitting that he has no idea how many times he did.

Using the fact that he did this as costume or to play a role is ignorant of the fact that playing a role that wasn't yours to play was the whole basis of blackface, and its rejection by black communities in the first place, and is also ignorant of the fact that on at least two occasions he wasn't even playing a role in any production, but had simply decided of his own volition to go full racist when no one else in the room was going along with it.

Trying to draw a connection between political irresponsibility on the part of an entire party and a consistent pattern of simultaneously playing identity politics while engaged in fraudulent cultural and racial appropriation is beyond the pail.

Trudeau's PMO and control over cabinet is even tighter than under Harper. While you could argue that a liberal party WITHOUT trudeau might on the balance be a decent party, there is simply no argument to be made that the current liberal government is inseparable from the lies fraud and corruption the leader. And no other party leader can come to anywhere near that degree of hypocrisy or moral corruption.

I also see people mentioning ethics and SNC Lavalin. Give me a break. The Conservatives have always been about big business. If you for a minute think the Cons wouldn't have pushed for a deal for SNC you are a fool or a hypocrit. The only difference would have been that the Conservative AG would have been on board , a deal would have happened, and we would have likely never heard about it. Don't talk to me about ethics with either party. Almost all politicians are crooked, regardless of party affiliation. The Conmservatives don't have any better record there. Harper was notorius for trying to quash information, bury scandals, sneak legislation through in omnibus bills, prorogue parlaiment to avoid votes etc. Scheer has shown no evidence he would be any different. Add to that the swing to the right by the party instead of being more center right and it's a bad recipe for Canada.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the job the Liberals have done either. They've done several things I disagree with. This gun ban is stupid and pointless. I agree there. But there are things I value more than guns that I think the Conservatives would put in jeopardy. I wish there was a viable third alternative. But the reality is we have two choices and my conclusion is that, while both are bad choices, the Liberals are the slightly less bad choice overall.

No, the conservatives have never been big business. THey have typically been for small business. Either way, favouring the job creators in our country is not a problem. The problem is that while COnservatives choose to support the economy, the liberals in SNC have chosen a single company over all the others, and they have done so not for reasons that benefit canada, but for reasons that benefit themselves.

I think it should be pretty clear that the CPC would have let a Quebec based company accused of fraud and bribery in relation to the son of a Libyan dictator go to trail and be sentenced without interference. Feel free to post a reference to any comment made by any member of the CPC that intervening unlawfully in the criminal trial of SNC was the right thing to do.

The rest of your post is a nonsensical self-contradictory rant devoid of any reference to actual facts, except for the fact that you think your contrived issues with the Conservatives are worth losing all your Actual guns over. Congratulations. You have drunk deep the liberal cool-aid. You are afraid of the liberals invented boogeyman. You are convinced to trade your actual security for the illusion of safety. And with such flawed skills in perception and decision making, you are exactly the state-dependant drone that the liberals need you to be. And before you think this is a baseless ad hominem, remember you are the one who said that the liberals, who have actually done things you disagree with, are the preferable choice to a conservative party whose actual policies you are clearly unaware of.

Feel free to report back to us in a few years and let us know if losing your guns was worth those other things that were more important to you. I suspect eventually under the liberals you will in fact have lost both.
 
Also, just to add, supporting legal gun ownership and having liberal viewpoints on social and environmental issues are not mutually exclusive. Many of you seem to think only right leaning people can want to own firearms and enjoy using them. There is a wide spectrum of views on issues and not everything is black and white.
 
Why should we be accepting alternative viewpoints? The left wants us disarmed and dead.

Indeed...

Unfortunately, when one side gives and the other doesn't, eventually this is all you're left with. The next compromise is the final one. We lose everything.

There's no compromise to be had between wolves and lambs, regardless of how 'progressive' the wolf pretends to be. Even if he dresses up in blackface and sings Day-o.
 
Maybe if more Liberal Gun owners stepped up and wrote their Party saying Hey I am a Liberal I own Guns stop treating me like a criminal they would change but as long as Members are simply there to Back Trudeau no matter the scandal and no matter the out come, then Trudeau apologists are a waste of every ones time especially the ones that are simply around to derail threads .
 
not everything is black and white.
Except for Justin, apparently......






:) Just kidding. I know I've been hearing that my entire life ("It's not all black and white ______") and I still don't know what it means, lol!

Well here's to hoping that you take it easy and stick around for awhile. It's always healthy to get out of the echo chamber occasionally, and I think it's ironic (I guess? or maybe tragic) for the left to be falling for the same trap now, that the right had fallen into, not that long ago (being stuck inside an echo chamber and drivings yourselves mad, I mean).


If you're looking to get your facts straight, and you appreciate people that respect the truth (even when it's a bit ugly) then you might find some benefits to sticking around.

Welcome to the forum. Good luck.
 
Indeed...

Unfortunately, when one side gives and the other doesn't, eventually this is all you're left with. The next compromise is the final one. We lose everything.

There's no compromise to be had between wolves and lambs, regardless of how 'progressive' the wolf pretends to be. Even if he dresses up in blackface and sings Day-o.


Awesome!
 
Guys Scheer is going to stay in the UN pact, The UN is coming for our guns, property, WATER, do your research! The UN is hiring confiscation officers to take YOUR GUNS, do your research! Look up Undrip and the Caribou Recovery!!! Guys Mad Max and the PPC will not be staying with the UN. The UN is the army of the elite. Check out TOM QUIGGIN and the QUIGGIN REPORT!!!!
 
RK99’s babble is typical ultra left BS.... “your not mature enough or responsible enough to have it, so therefore you must relinquish it”, and then they like to use skewed data to prove their point .. unfortunately he falls a bit flat as in this great country of ours ,we the legal firearms owners have certainly proven that we are both mature enough and responsible as the stats clearly show that those with legally acquired firearms are not the ones killing folks with them.... it’s the ####### criminals who get the majority of their HANDGUNS....smuggled up from the states.
 
Based on Today's polls, it is HIGHLY likely the Trudeau will get re-elected.


You are on the right track, but not quite right. The government DOES have the power to ban things under the criminal law in municipalities cities or towns. What it can't do is download the ability to make those laws to the municipalities. Parliament could create a process where by towns can request the ban, and the government may or may not accept.

What it absolutely cant do is let municipalities create their own criminal law.

And you are also correct that anything to be done in relation to municipalities MUST be with the consent of the premieres. ANd with 7 out of ten premieres being recently elected Conservatives and one Green, it is highly unlikely that Trudeau is going to get very far negotiating with premieres over something that will significantly increase policing costs in this municipalities without any increased funding for law enforcement.

This promise to let cities ban handguns is a blatantly gratuitous promise akin to the failed promise for electoral reform. Its the kind of thing that any adult who is actually familiar knows that it is A) virtually impossible, and B) completely impossible by an inexperienced dilettante like Trudeau who lacks the skill and intelligence and competent team to pull off such a difficult proposal.



###ist because when his mail cabinet ministers tell him that his ideas are bad, he listens to them, and when his female cabinet ministers tell him that his ideas are bad, he fires them and kicks them out of caucus.

As for blackface being racist, you must have been living under a rock for the last 100 years. Even Trudeau himself said that the practice of blackface is ALWAYS racist. Intent? The intent of blackface has always been to profit, either financially, personally or socially, from the telling of stories and portrayal of stories that are not your own, which is fraud, while specifically denying the ability of the people who identify with those stories from telling them themselves.

Historically blackface started because black people were legally prohibited from acting in performances geared towards white audiences. Have you heard of slavery? Have you heard of Segregation? Blackface specifically grew out of the consequences of those policies. Regardless of whether Trudeau intended to offend people, the point is that he intended to use those stories and those narratives in order to endear himself to an audience of rich white people for personal gain.

Further, it does not matter that one person was not offended. What matters is that millions of people WERE offended.

And while many people were quick to excuse trudeau of this transgression because it was almost twenty years ago, it bears repeating that blackface was known as a racist practice and has been actively protested by social justice advocates (like the kind Trudeau claims to be), for more than 100 years.

It is unfathomable to me that I could have learned in school in the 80s that blackface was a detestable and racist practice, and that Trudeau as a teacher in 2001 could not have known that this would be offensive. Lets not forget that in 2019, Trudeau apologized by blaming his ignorance on white privilege, as if society was to blame for his ignorance, and limited his apology to only those instances for which he had been caught, and then lied about how many times he had done it, before finally admitting that he has no idea how many times he did.

Using the fact that he did this as costume or to play a role is ignorant of the fact that playing a role that wasn't yours to play was the whole basis of blackface, and its rejection by black communities in the first place, and is also ignorant of the fact that on at least two occasions he wasn't even playing a role in any production, but had simply decided of his own volition to go full racist when no one else in the room was going along with it.

Trying to draw a connection between political irresponsibility on the part of an entire party and a consistent pattern of simultaneously playing identity politics while engaged in fraudulent cultural and racial appropriation is beyond the pail.

Trudeau's PMO and control over cabinet is even tighter than under Harper. While you could argue that a liberal party WITHOUT trudeau might on the balance be a decent party, there is simply no argument to be made that the current liberal government is inseparable from the lies fraud and corruption the leader. And no other party leader can come to anywhere near that degree of hypocrisy or moral corruption.



No, the conservatives have never been big business. THey have typically been for small business. Either way, favouring the job creators in our country is not a problem. The problem is that while COnservatives choose to support the economy, the liberals in SNC have chosen a single company over all the others, and they have done so not for reasons that benefit canada, but for reasons that benefit themselves.

I think it should be pretty clear that the CPC would have let a Quebec based company accused of fraud and bribery in relation to the son of a Libyan dictator go to trail and be sentenced without interference. Feel free to post a reference to any comment made by any member of the CPC that intervening unlawfully in the criminal trial of SNC was the right thing to do.

The rest of your post is a nonsensical self-contradictory rant devoid of any reference to actual facts, except for the fact that you think your contrived issues with the Conservatives are worth losing all your Actual guns over. Congratulations. You have drunk deep the liberal cool-aid. You are afraid of the liberals invented boogeyman. You are convinced to trade your actual security for the illusion of safety. And with such flawed skills in perception and decision making, you are exactly the state-dependant drone that the liberals need you to be. And before you think this is a baseless ad hominem, remember you are the one who said that the liberals, who have actually done things you disagree with, are the preferable choice to a conservative party whose actual policies you are clearly unaware of.

Feel free to report back to us in a few years and let us know if losing your guns was worth those other things that were more important to you. I suspect eventually under the liberals you will in fact have lost both.

Thank you very much Cameron, for taking your time to properly explain all this to everybody. Hopefully many things are more clear now.
 
Also, just to add, supporting legal gun ownership and having liberal viewpoints on social and environmental issues are not mutually exclusive. Many of you seem to think only right leaning people can want to own firearms and enjoy using them. There is a wide spectrum of views on issues and not everything is black and white.

Actually supporting legal gun ownership is a liberal viewpoint, but of course it should be apparent to all by now that the LPC is really not liberal in the classic sense. All of their policies are based on acquiring and holding power. They are all about redistribution of wealth, muzzling opposing views and silencing dissent.
Of course it appears as though you actually think the LPC offers serious environmental policy alternatives. Perhaps you could explain to me how they actually differ from the Harper conservatives? I mean they claim to support pipelines and bought a pipeline company. They signed on to the same UN carbon goals, and all they really did was raise taxes, but of course the money raised goes into general revenues.
 
Also, just to add, supporting legal gun ownership and having liberal viewpoints on social and environmental issues are not mutually exclusive. Many of you seem to think only right leaning people can want to own firearms and enjoy using them. There is a wide spectrum of views on issues and not everything is black and white.

While I respect your ability to have a viewpoint. But you must see that by voting liberal, you just handed your firearms over to the authorities. Therefore I question your political stance. Although it would be interesting to know how many left leaning voters are a part of the shooting sports community.
 
Although it would be interesting to know how many left leaning voters are a part of the shooting sports community.

More at the start than the end, I would expect. It certainly had that effect on me.

The more you shoot, the more you resent government telling you what you're 'allowed' to do...
 
Also, just to add, supporting legal gun ownership and having liberal viewpoints on social and environmental issues are not mutually exclusive. Many of you seem to think only right leaning people can want to own firearms and enjoy using them. There is a wide spectrum of views on issues and not everything is black and white.

On this point we completely agree. With 2.2 million licensed owners and probably another 2-3 million owners who never bothered with the Liberal Firearms Act, it should be readily apparent that gun ownership is a diverse group that is broadly representative of Canada at large.

And just as you yourself are an example of someone who would vote against their own gun ownership in favour of other policies that are more important to you, I would suspect that the vast majority of gun owners do not vote solely based on guns.

While its hard for me to look at my family's gun collection, and what we use them for and contemplate any other social or environmental issue that is more closely related to our physical and economic security, I readily concede that for many gun owners that is not the case. Unless and until gun owners realize that trading their guns for some other issue will inevitably result in the loss of both, and decide that truly holding governments accountable for past performance is far more important to evaluating the gratuitous vote-bribe promises of new candidates seeking power, we will continue to lose ground, and eventually the only gun owners left will be the unlawful kind, not all of which will be bad.

So while I agree that being a liberal for reasons outside of guns and being a gun owner are not mutually exclusive, liberal governments and legal gun ownership most definitely are mutually exclusive.
 
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Also, just to add, supporting legal gun ownership and having liberal viewpoints on social and environmental issues are not mutually exclusive. Many of you seem to think only right leaning people can want to own firearms and enjoy using them. There is a wide spectrum of views on issues and not everything is black and white.


Supporting the Liberals is not supporting legal gun ownership. It's the exact opposite. You become the enemy of the firearms community
 
There is no way this would only cost $600 million if the long gun registry cost $2 billion.

You've been lied to. I've pointed this out to you before and you continue to repeat this false narrative spewn by the CPC.

The long gun registry did not cost 2 billion dollars.

The Canadian Firearms Program in its entirety, Licensing, Registration, Authorizations, National Training Courses, IM Databases, Continuous Eligibility Checks, Classification Decisions, Staffing Provincial CFO's officers, Shooting Range Management, everything under the name of the firearms act is what has cost upwards of now 3 billion dollars.

IN 2012, when the Non-restricted (guns are not classified by length alone) Registry ended, the annual operating costs of the Non-restricted portion of the registry was less than $5 million annually. Ever wonder how much money the CPC cut from the CFP's budget after it ended the NR Registry? Not one dime. IN fact it went up.

The narrative that the CPC was feeding Canadians about the 2 billion dollar boondoggle being related simply to the registration of long guns was a complete fabrication concocted in order to foster support for the very tepid and watered down promise of scrapping NR registration, instead of the full repeal of the firearms act which our community wanted.

Further, A significant portion of the cost of the Set up of the Canadian Firearms Program included creation of a new database management tool, which included an array of new hardware, as well as complex linkage and migration of data across multiple information systems. As far as I can tell, moving certain firearms to the prohib class and revoking certificates will not require any modification to the current CFIS, and will not require much in terms of manpower from the CFP, other than issuing a few contracts for destruction of surrendered firearms.

But you are right. There is no way this will cost $600 million dollars. The Liberals have never accurately predicted the cost of anything. Using history as an example in other countries, New Zealand allocated more than $200,000 million for their buyback, and due to non compliance has spent less than $40 million so far. Australia's buy back in the mid 90s also came in more than 40% under budget due to receiving less than the anticipated number of subject firearms.

I suspect that Canadian Non compliance will be comparable, and far less then the expected number of firearms will be turned in.

The only way the ### comes close to full compliance is if they give BILLIONS of dollars to local law enforcement in order to cover the overtime costs associated with direct gun owner follow up. So the real number will either be much less than 600M, or much more.
 
You've been lied to. I've pointed this out to you before and you continue to repeat this false narrative spewn by the CPC.

The long gun registry did not cost 2 billion dollars.

The Canadian Firearms Program in its entirety, Licensing, Registration, Authorizations, National Training Courses, IM Databases, Continuous Eligibility Checks, Classification Decisions, Staffing Provincial CFO's officers, Shooting Range Management, everything under the name of the firearms act is what has cost upwards of now 3 billion dollars.

IN 2012, when the Non-restricted (guns are not classified by length alone) Registry ended, the annual operating costs of the Non-restricted portion of the registry was less than $5 million annually. Ever wonder how much money the CPC cut from the CFP's budget after it ended the NR Registry? Not one dime. IN fact it went up.

The narrative that the CPC was feeding Canadians about the 2 billion dollar boondoggle being related simply to the registration of long guns was a complete fabrication concocted in order to foster support for the very tepid and watered down promise of scrapping NR registration, instead of the full repeal of the firearms act which our community wanted.

Further, A significant portion of the cost of the Set up of the Canadian Firearms Program included creation of a new database management tool, which included an array of new hardware, as well as complex linkage and migration of data across multiple information systems. As far as I can tell, moving certain firearms to the prohib class and revoking certificates will not require any modification to the current CFIS, and will not require much in terms of manpower from the CFP, other than issuing a few contracts for destruction of surrendered firearms.

But you are right. There is no way this will cost $600 million dollars. The Liberals have never accurately predicted the cost of anything. Using history as an example in other countries, New Zealand allocated more than $200,000 million for their buyback, and due to non compliance has spent less than $40 million so far. Australia's buy back in the mid 90s also came in more than 40% under budget due to receiving less than the anticipated number of subject firearms.

I suspect that Canadian Non compliance will be comparable, and far less then the expected number of firearms will be turned in.

The only way the ### comes close to full compliance is if they give BILLIONS of dollars to local law enforcement in order to cover the overtime costs associated with direct gun owner follow up. So the real number will either be much less than 600M, or much more.

When have I ever posted that? I just googled it and copied it from a CBC article. You need to step back from your computer and chill out.

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How could anybody with a stake in shooting sports endorse the Liberals? I know we're not all single-issue voters looking for representation, but I find it hard to believe that having personal property confiscated would be acceptable to any voter.
 
Wow. The level of right wing paranoia and extreme views here is really sad. Not that it's any of your business but yeah, I joined in June. Wanted to get back into target shooting which I used to do as a student. Did my safety course in May, sent my PAL paperwork in June and got it approved in late July. I've now bought two handguns and a rifle and joined a range to go enjoy a sport I was interested in. But if this community is only full of paranoid, insulting and ignorant right wingers who aren't able to hold an intelligent and polite discussion of actual facts then you can have it. Maybe guns should be banned as I don't know if guys like you are mature enough to have them. Also, the attitudes you express will do little to win you support and open ears from people outside the shooting community. Your guns don't exist in a vacuum and there are multiple issues in other areas that are of concern to Canadians. If you aren't willing to listen to ideas and opinions outside your world view then you have already lost and will feed into increasing polarization rather than working with your fellow Canadians to find solutions to multiple problems and situations. Good luck.

See, the left likes to point out that guns are not as important as the opposing viewpoint thinks so.

The reality is that firearms are pivotal. Show one example in history where a disarmament agenda worked out well for the citizens who were disarmed.

It has nothing to do with tinfoil, a vacuum or any other keyword that you have used, it has to do with freedom. We don't want to sacrifice any freedoms, and especially the one freedom that can be used to guarantee the other freedoms.
 
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