Totally agree. Remember you are taking away case hardened metal, There is no really proof that the gun shoots any better as almost all put a new barrel on at the same time.
Truing the action, is it worth it?
- Thread starter fatboyz
- Start date
Totally agree. Remember you are taking away case hardened metal, There is no really proof that the gun shoots any better as almost all put a new barrel on at the same time.
Here we have a classic example of internet misinformation from someone who is either misinformed or just plain ignorant of the facts and willing to put that ignorance out there for all to see.
There is no case hardening involved in the manufacture of a Remington action. While there are potential issues with any kind of machining operation, the removal of "case hardened metal" is not one of them in this particular case. Regards, Bill
Sometimes the cheapest thing you can do is pull the barrel off. I'll assume that you've already done the check screws, check mounts, check scope routine.
You can fire $500 worth of components and a pile of gas while wasting the best shots the barrel has in it. You can bed it, then bed it again after you change the barrel. Maybe that's free, maybe it's not. You can rethread and rechamber, then pay for that again when you rebarrel. Or you can bite the bullet, rebarrel, true and bed all at once and probably start with a shooter from day 1.
You can fire $500 worth of components and a pile of gas while wasting the best shots the barrel has in it. You can bed it, then bed it again after you change the barrel. Maybe that's free, maybe it's not. You can rethread and rechamber, then pay for that again when you rebarrel. Or you can bite the bullet, rebarrel, true and bed all at once and probably start with a shooter from day 1.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Most of us refer to bullet runout. We are trying to make the ammo as straight as possible with the bullet tip inline with the case which should chamber inline with the bore.
Runout is a measure of how far off true the bullet is. Call it bullet wobble if it helps you visualize the concept.
Take a loaded rd and roll it on a mirror. The tip should look to be pointing straight not wobbling around the axis of rotation. If you can see the wobble, you have WAY too much runout.
Most of the time 5 thou and under will make very shootable ammo. Competition shooters want as little as possible and strive for zero to 2 thou.
This is measured using a runout guage. Sinclair has some very nice units. forster too.
I measure the fired case neck and body just below the shoulder. It should be zero if the chamber is cut well.
If cases are properly sized, little to no runout should be introduced. Lee collet neck die and Forster/Redding bushing dies are the most common sizers to get great results.
When the bullet is seated, I measure on the bullet shank just in front of the case neck. Hopefully, this is only a few thou. of runout, if any.
If there is more then desired, then the seater isn't doing its job and there are better ones from Forster and Redding that will.
Reducing ammo runout is all about the dies and how you set them up. I do not believe in straightening ammo after the fact as this will likely cause other issues.
If the dies are doing its job, you will not have to worry about runout and can focus on your load tuning.
Also remember that not all bullets are capable of shooting teeny tiny groups. There are some hunting bullets that are lucky to shoot MOA. One major manf used to consider 1.5 MOA in their QC testing to be acceptable.
If you haven't, consider a quality match bullet - Hornady 162gr Amax, Berger 168gr. Also, any of the Hornady SST's will shoot sub MOA and are well priced.
You haven't listed your components so we are guessing on what you are feeding it. Some receipes just aren't up to the task either.
Jerry
Originally Posted by GunBoy
I can tell you from you are wasting you money on trying to true a remington action, the best you can do is to try to lap the locking lug, and take around .002 of the face of the action where recoil lug go, doing any more than that would just wasting time and money,
I don't know why you would take 2 thou off the face of the action if you don't know if the face of the action is true or not to the locking lug recesses and the bolt raceway. Lapping the locking lugs is not the way to true anything either.
Truing may be of not much benefit using a factory barrel (it certainly wont be worse) but it can make a quality barrel sing.
All factory rifles usually benefit from the accurizing procedure Bill outlined in an earlier post. (Glass, float, trigger, etc.)
I can tell you from you are wasting you money on trying to true a remington action, the best you can do is to try to lap the locking lug, and take around .002 of the face of the action where recoil lug go, doing any more than that would just wasting time and money,
I don't know why you would take 2 thou off the face of the action if you don't know if the face of the action is true or not to the locking lug recesses and the bolt raceway. Lapping the locking lugs is not the way to true anything either.
Truing may be of not much benefit using a factory barrel (it certainly wont be worse) but it can make a quality barrel sing.
All factory rifles usually benefit from the accurizing procedure Bill outlined in an earlier post. (Glass, float, trigger, etc.)
Here is a very good thread on the subject started by the handsome and debonair poster, ROA
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355372&highlight=truing+action
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355372&highlight=truing+action
Great video
Another
sgr218 has a number of excellent gunsmithing videos on the tube. The example in the first video is an XP 100 action. Other than being single shot it is very similar to a 700
As an aside, Mick McPhee has been having 700 bolt bodies built up with (i think) electroplating. This adds dimension to the bolt body that can be turned to perfect concentricity and makes them thicker without making the bolt thinner by simple turning. This significantly improves bolt tolerances. It also makes them look like a million bucks...
Another
sgr218 has a number of excellent gunsmithing videos on the tube. The example in the first video is an XP 100 action. Other than being single shot it is very similar to a 700
As an aside, Mick McPhee has been having 700 bolt bodies built up with (i think) electroplating. This adds dimension to the bolt body that can be turned to perfect concentricity and makes them thicker without making the bolt thinner by simple turning. This significantly improves bolt tolerances. It also makes them look like a million bucks...
"Bumping" a bolt is also an easy process if you use Bill Leeper's method. He put me on to this a while back. It's so simple and works as well as anything.
A dovetail cut in in the bolt body within the rear bridge the top and bottom position of a close bolt. A steel insert installed. Then machine these to the inside measurement of the rear bridge. The bolt operates freely as if nothing has been altered until you 'cam it' closed. Then it 'tightens' up.
Here is a picture of the underside. You hardly notice these when the bolt is in the action.
A dovetail cut in in the bolt body within the rear bridge the top and bottom position of a close bolt. A steel insert installed. Then machine these to the inside measurement of the rear bridge. The bolt operates freely as if nothing has been altered until you 'cam it' closed. Then it 'tightens' up.
Here is a picture of the underside. You hardly notice these when the bolt is in the action.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
That Bill, he be a smart lad...
I really like the idea of having that bump to lock up the bolt. I have seen other versions using rings/shims then milling them elliptical.
Plating and oversized bolt bodies work really well in a tuned Rem but can get you in trouble with a rifle that will see weather.
Zero tolerance actions will simply lock up if it gets dirty. The added bump will ensure the bolt can cycle in the crud but lock up nice and solid. Great idea for hunting and tactical rifles.
Sort of like a Savage but different
Jerry
I really like the idea of having that bump to lock up the bolt. I have seen other versions using rings/shims then milling them elliptical.
Plating and oversized bolt bodies work really well in a tuned Rem but can get you in trouble with a rifle that will see weather.
Zero tolerance actions will simply lock up if it gets dirty. The added bump will ensure the bolt can cycle in the crud but lock up nice and solid. Great idea for hunting and tactical rifles.
Sort of like a Savage but different
Jerry
My friend and I constantly shoot 1000+ yds with our factory Remington 700 action/barrels (mine is an LTR, his is an SPS-T) with minimal issues. I've been out to the same locations and shooting the same distances with other people on here who have fully custom built rifles (from very respectable companies who we all talk about on here), and the results have been the same for all of us.
Conclusion:
Until I wear my factory 20" barrel out, I won't be replacing it (or truing the action) with the barrel I originally wanted. I am not shooting in comps and I am not trying to shoot .25 MOA @ 300 yds and beyond - if I were, I'd consider a Surgeon action and Krieger (or similar) barrel.
1120 yds to target:
The only well defined target 1120 yards away I can see on this picture is this big mountain across the valley. If this is what you shoot at I can believe you. Anything smaller than this mountain would be very hard to hit from 20" barrel regardless of its make, quality and squarness of the action.
KazimierMystic, I had hoped for this to be a hunting rifle aswell so I have been trying mostly hunting bullets. I haven't been able to find any Bergers or Amax in AB here, but may have some Bergers from someone here. I tried some 160 MatchKings and SST's with mediocre results. My best results have been with 160 partitions and Balllistic tips over RL22. After shooting the few matchkings I got from a friend I found a high spot in the stock, so that's when I had the rifle bedded and free float the barrel. I haven't been able to get any more match kings so I'm going to have to go with what I can get. I'm going to try and tighten up on a few of my reloading techniques (suggestions from your site) and see how that works. A number of small errors, or not being precise enough during loading may add up to quite a differance.
Another thought I have had after reading some of these comments is whether I should be considering a muzzle brake? Maybe that 7 mag thump is affecting me more than I think! I can shoot the 222 all day. I also noticed out at the range today that I have significant parralax issues when wearing my contacts. I'll need to stick to the glasses eventhough they fog up in this cold.
Don
Don
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Let me know what bullets you want. I can certainly help you with components. PM or send me an email at info@mysticprecision.com
Jerry
Jerry
The only well defined target 1120 yards away I can see on this picture is this big mountain across the valley. If this is what you shoot at I can believe you. Anything smaller than this mountain would be very hard to hit from 20" barrel regardless of its make, quality and squarness of the action.
LOL.
You should REALLY learn something about barrel length before you post stupid $hit like that
Have you ever even shot past 300 yds? I doubt it.
I've hit my Nalgene bottles a dozen times at that location.
Below are two of the three water bottles which I hit the day of the photo, at 1120 yds.
Here you can see the entry hole on the left and the exit hole on the right (just barely through the foggy lexan). This bottle was on a severe angle when I hit it, hence the diagonal bullet holes:
Here is the second bottle I hit (nicked):
Would yo like to see pics of my gong which we hit at 1300 yds?
Here you go:
And here's the 1300 yd shot...
Could I interest you in video footage? You can count the seconds (bullet flight) yourself if you are still in disbelief.
Do you understand now what can be done with a .308 in the right conditions?
Oldsmobiler
CGN Regular
- Location
- Coquitlam, BC
The only well defined target 1120 yards away I can see on this picture is this big mountain across the valley. If this is what you shoot at I can believe you. Anything smaller than this mountain would be very hard to hit from 20" barrel regardless of its make, quality and squarness of the action.
Kidding right?
If not you should add internet rifle expert on your sig
Oldsmobiler
CGN Regular
- Location
- Coquitlam, BC
I just wanna know the area where pazzo's got his gong
I think I've got an idea...
Shhhhhhh its a secret
Gotta keep the non believers out of there 
