Trying neck sizing, bolt closes hard.

Wasted your money? Not at all. As many have stated already, you just need to bump the shoulders back a thou or two. I just ran 200 Lapua 6.5x284 cases through my body die because the bolt was stiff, just as you describe, after about 5 firings and only neck sizing.

After how many firings should you bump the shoulder back with a body die? The answer is when the bolt begins to get stiff. Eventually though, as others has said, you will no longer be able to properly massage the brass and will either need to anneal or get new brass. Get yourself a body or full length die and bump those shoulders back!

Oh, did anyone mention to check the trim length of the brass? If they are too long (not likely) then the case will be jamming into the end of your chamber.
 
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Only use cases fired in that specific rifle for neck sizing.
Neck sized .308 from my old Savage are hard to chamber in my Howa, for example, due to chamber differences.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
Do you notice any added resistance to chambering the Lee Collet sized brass? I'm trying to establish what is the norm and what is outside the norm for use with that system.
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I shoot neck sized brass using the Lee Collet dies most of the time. When it come to FL sizing I use RCBS dies. There is a very slight resistance when chambering the neck sized brass. It is hardly noticeable from FL size brass. So slight that I do not hesitate to use Lee Collet sized brass for hunting. This is in my rifles SAKO 85 25.06, SAKO A7 708, Tikka T3 .223
 
yidava25 said:
Yes I am aware of that, I keep my brass from one rifle separated from that of a different one. And sunray, I thought the whole point of neck sizing was that it affected only the neck. Does a neck sizer die ever push the shoulder down? I have tried screwing the die in until I don't want the press to cam over any harder.
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When neck Sizing there should be no more pressure on the handle as you size the neck

if it has got harder when you get to the shoulder you have gone too far (and you are pushing on the shoulder)

if you do not size the bottom 1/16 of the neck closest to the shoulder it does not matter
 
"...wasted my money..." The marketing types strike again. You can set up FL dies to neck size only, but it'd be a nuisance changing the die all the time. Never bothered with it myself. Mind you, I've always been using the same brass in more than one rifle.
You annealing is done when you get one cracked case neck/mouth. Pitch the cracked one and anneal the rest. Annealing isn't rocket science either. Put the cases in a pan of water filled to just below the case shoulder, then heat with a regular propane torch until the brass changes colour(not red hot) and tip it over.
Shoulders get set back every time.
"...guess I still need a headspace gauge..." Nope. Cases don't have headspace. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance only.
 
hend238 said:
Wasted your money? Not at all. As many have stated already, you just need to bump the shoulders back a thou or two. I just ran 200 Lapua 6.5x284 cases through my body die because the bolt was stiff, just as you describe, after about 5 firings and only neck sizing.

How many times should you bump the shoulder back with a body die? The answer is when the bolt begins to get stiff. Eventually though, as others has said, you will no longer be able to properly massage the brass and will either need to anneal or get new brass. Get yourself a body or full length die and bump those shoulders back!

Oh, did anyone mention to check the trim length of the brass? If they are too long (not likely) then the case will be jamming into the end of your chamber.
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Music ^^^. I do all my neck sizing with a Lee Collect Die, but you can use your FL resizer for neck only as well - it's all in the attention you pay to die setting in the press. After several firings, yes the bolt will be hard to close. You "bump" the shoulder back when this happens. Redding makes a Body Die (no internals) that will bump the shoulder or you can use a FL die. Redding also makes a shellholder kit with .002 to .010" thicker shellholders to assist in finding the "sweet" spot when bumping (vs. turning your dies a hair at a time until you find that sweet spot).

How do you tell when you have "bumped" .001 to .002". Hornady makes a headspace measuring tool that allows you to measure the difference between a fired case that you have issue closing the bolt on, and your resized case that the bolt will close effortlessly on. The tool is cheap. After you have bumped and tested to see if the bolt closes as per normal, you would then neck size with the Lee Collet and prepare brass as per all the other usual steps.

It's that simple.
 
The RCBS neck die, it sizes down the case neck OD a fair bit, then drags the expander button back out from inside to set the ID for a rather more than optimum heavy seated bullet tension. As bigedp51 pointed out, if a hard yank is needed on the press handle upstroke (expanding), well that can easily pull the shoulder forward ... a harder bolt close will result. The case can be deformed. The headspace, all messed up.
That unneccesary extra moving of of brass in and out, can often bend the necks(leading to crooked loaded cart's. ... excessive runout), and all that movement, it work hardens the brass prematurely. (anneal it frequently, or just bin it).

None of these shortcomings exist, with the Lee Collet neck dies.
Granted, they can be a wee bit tricky to set up properly (I personally prefer the "cam-over" ,&, "run 'em twice through with a quarter turn" method), and never, ever, gap out and raise the ram without a case inside the collet. Screws them up big time.

Dead straight necks, very easy to stone down the stem dia. down to ideal 2-3 thou. neck tension with your chosen brass, no lube needed, cases do last much longer.

Re: body dies and pushing back the shoulder/body.
Hunting loads always get bumped back a thou. or two, for guaranteed easy chambering.
Target and LR cart's., they almost never seem to need to need it. Brand of brass and load pressure are variables here. Some resistance to bolt close?, that means zero headspace slop has resulted from your resizing step. Try a sized empty case in your chamber to confirm, before charging/seating.

Annealing?. Every third reload with RCBS type dies. Every fifth bang for the collet loaded tackdrivers. Been years since I've tossed a case due to split neck.
Enlarged primer pockets?, well thats another matter. ... :redface:
 
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hend238 said:
Wasted your money? Not at all. As many have stated already, you just need to bump the shoulders back a thou or two. I just ran 200 Lapua 6.5x284 cases through my body die because the bolt was stiff, just as you describe, after about 5 firings and only neck sizing.

After how many firings should you bump the shoulder back with a body die? The answer is when the bolt begins to get stiff. Eventually though, as others has said, you will no longer be able to properly massage the brass and will either need to anneal or get new brass. Get yourself a body or full length die and bump those shoulders back!

Oh, did anyone mention to check the trim length of the brass? If they are too long (not likely) then the case will be jamming into the end of your chamber.
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This.
 
yidava25 said:
I think I wasted my money on a neck sizer die. Brass is not expensive enough to justify this headache and I'm not trying to shoot MOA at a grand. Thanks for helping though everybody!
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I feel like that a lot. I've got enough money in bushing style neck dies sets to buy a handful of barrels. Would have been farther ahead with the barrels.
 
I've never encountered this with my lee collet neck sizing dies. I make certain that I overcam my press and I sometimes run em through twice. I anneal every 4th or 5th time and have had zero issues in the 4 guns I necksize for.
 
I just tested my once fired Lapua 308 brass and even without neck sizing, it easily rechambers in my Rem 700 from which it was fired initially. I can't imagine the collet neck resizing will make it any more difficult. I won't get into neck sizing until I've shot off all 100 pieces of brass once.
 
Grizzlypeg said:
I just tested my once fired Lapua 308 brass and even without neck sizing, it easily rechambers in my Rem 700 from which it was fired initially. I can't imagine the collet neck resizing will make it any more difficult. I won't get into neck sizing until I've shot off all 100 pieces of brass once.
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Typically, once fired brass hasn't stretched enough to cause a stiff bolt. Unless it has seen excessive pressure. Under normal conditions, it'll take 4 or 5 firings before you get a stiff bolt.

SL
 
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