Trying to get good.
- Thread starter mini15
- Start date
Hi,
As you said steel is fun to shoot for the feedback, but terrible for diagnosing marksmanship issues or sighting in a gun. You have to go back to paper targets for that. It's the only way you can examine from shot to shot how your doing.
In general the best thing to do is to get a plain white piece of paper about 36x36 and put a single black target plaster dead center. Shoot one round and check with a pair of cheap binoculars or a spotting scope where the round went. Rinse and repeat for the rest of the mag.
If all your rounds are clustered in the same area at least your grouping well, even if a bit off target. If your rounds are all over the place, then practice makes perfect.
As to the point of impact on your Glock atm that can vary depending on the ammo, 115 gr, 124, or 147. Also depending on whether they're loaded for target shooting or NATO hot, you're point of impact can change.
Start with that single dot target, take some pics of your groups, post them up, and we'll work from there.
gl
As you said steel is fun to shoot for the feedback, but terrible for diagnosing marksmanship issues or sighting in a gun. You have to go back to paper targets for that. It's the only way you can examine from shot to shot how your doing.
In general the best thing to do is to get a plain white piece of paper about 36x36 and put a single black target plaster dead center. Shoot one round and check with a pair of cheap binoculars or a spotting scope where the round went. Rinse and repeat for the rest of the mag.
If all your rounds are clustered in the same area at least your grouping well, even if a bit off target. If your rounds are all over the place, then practice makes perfect.
As to the point of impact on your Glock atm that can vary depending on the ammo, 115 gr, 124, or 147. Also depending on whether they're loaded for target shooting or NATO hot, you're point of impact can change.
Start with that single dot target, take some pics of your groups, post them up, and we'll work from there.
gl
I definitively still have some flinch. Nowhere near what it used to be but it is still there.
I unloaded my gun and started practicing dry fires downrange. Even knowing that it is unloaded, right after I pull the trigger on an empty gun, I "snap" a mm or two left to right usually. When a shot is actually going off, you wouldn't notice this and I can see how that would tweak the gun to one side or another just as the bullet is leaving the barrel, thus effing up the accuracy.
I kind of cheaped out on my range membership, outdoor was cheaper then indoor. Outdoor sucks for paper targets as they're always blowing away or something. But I can see the advantage of paper for benchmarking accuracy. Gonna go get an indoor and start using paper.
As for beating the flinch, I guess only more practice will do. I've been running through mad amounts of ammunition. Just picked up 3000rds of ammo from SFRC the other day. 147gr, 124's, 135's and NATO hot surplus. I don't dump less then 500rds through the gun each range visit. I go there once a week.
I do surprisingly well on "target transition" I find. They have three other targets set up at 25 yards and randomly when nobody is there I will transition metal plates and attempt to hit targets at another shooting station. Bang, bang, bang... Hits most of the time. Yea my accuracy is weird right now. Goes from crap to good.
I unloaded my gun and started practicing dry fires downrange. Even knowing that it is unloaded, right after I pull the trigger on an empty gun, I "snap" a mm or two left to right usually. When a shot is actually going off, you wouldn't notice this and I can see how that would tweak the gun to one side or another just as the bullet is leaving the barrel, thus effing up the accuracy.
I kind of cheaped out on my range membership, outdoor was cheaper then indoor. Outdoor sucks for paper targets as they're always blowing away or something. But I can see the advantage of paper for benchmarking accuracy. Gonna go get an indoor and start using paper.
As for beating the flinch, I guess only more practice will do. I've been running through mad amounts of ammunition. Just picked up 3000rds of ammo from SFRC the other day. 147gr, 124's, 135's and NATO hot surplus. I don't dump less then 500rds through the gun each range visit. I go there once a week.
I do surprisingly well on "target transition" I find. They have three other targets set up at 25 yards and randomly when nobody is there I will transition metal plates and attempt to hit targets at another shooting station. Bang, bang, bang... Hits most of the time. Yea my accuracy is weird right now. Goes from crap to good.
It will cost you a lot more in ammo trying to teach yourself how to shoot, than it will if you seek proper training to teach you what to practice.
Think about the phrase "you don't know, what you don't know".
It isn't an insult or a dig. It's a statement that describes where we all started.
Something you can do for free at home, after double checking that your pistol is unloaded...:
Put up a target on a wall. Choose a wall that makes the most sense safety wise just in case you somehow leave your gun loaded someday (it happens because people tell themselves that it can't happen to them).
Place a penny flat on your front sight. Extend your pistol out, and align your sights so that the top of the front is flush with the top of rear, and there is equal light on either side. Place the front sight over the target and put all of your focus on the front sight.
Press the trigger straight back while staring with 100% of your concentration on that front sight.
If the penny stays put, you hit what you were aiming at. Shooting a pistol is just that simple.
If the penny somehow falls, you need to teach yourself how to press the trigger differently, so that your finger has zero effect on moving the gun and 100% effect on pressing the trigger straight to the rear.
front sight, front sight, front sight... prrreeessssssss.
Think about the phrase "you don't know, what you don't know".
It isn't an insult or a dig. It's a statement that describes where we all started.
Something you can do for free at home, after double checking that your pistol is unloaded...:
Put up a target on a wall. Choose a wall that makes the most sense safety wise just in case you somehow leave your gun loaded someday (it happens because people tell themselves that it can't happen to them).
Place a penny flat on your front sight. Extend your pistol out, and align your sights so that the top of the front is flush with the top of rear, and there is equal light on either side. Place the front sight over the target and put all of your focus on the front sight.
Press the trigger straight back while staring with 100% of your concentration on that front sight.
If the penny stays put, you hit what you were aiming at. Shooting a pistol is just that simple.
If the penny somehow falls, you need to teach yourself how to press the trigger differently, so that your finger has zero effect on moving the gun and 100% effect on pressing the trigger straight to the rear.
front sight, front sight, front sight... prrreeessssssss.
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- Location
- West Quebec
tagged
I'm really not about 22LR. I've practiced lot's with it. It's time to play with the big boys. I'm not made of money but it doesn't really hurt my budget to pump out 500rds of commercial 9mm a range trip every week.
What is more important? Front sight or rear sights? I watch guys do ODPL shoots and they get amazing accuracy. I ask most guys how they get that type of accuracy in such momentary split second reaction point shooting and they say that they only use the front sight. In ODPL you don't have "time" to lineup the sights perfectly. Anybody know what that's about?
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
Ita not about playing with the big boys. The recoil is the problem, and learning the basics without it is essential IMHO. Going back and forth from a .22 to the centerfire will likely show improvement immediately, at least it did for me. I would shoot a few rounds with my .357 then a few with a .22 and the first few shots back with the magnum would be stellar. It's about conditioning yourself to not anticipate the recoil, and it is very hard to do with anything but a .22.
Also dry firing is by far the best way to learn how to shoot a Glock. That trigger is a serious problem for many especially if you shoot any other guns on a regular basis. Pulling that trigger and not moving the muzzle is quite the challenge with a standard Glock trigger, so practice is essential. Balancing an empty .22 case on the slide, or getting a lazer will help you to see any movement when that trigger breaks.
OP, I used to do the same thing. Glock sights are very different from anything else. We have trained our eye to scan several area's when shooting. Sights level, air gap between the front sightpost in relation to where it sits in the rear sight...and then where this sight picture rests on the target, follow me so far?
Glock is a different set up. do not concern yourself with where the top of the sight post is in relation to the rear {I don't even concern myself with the rear sight anymore, as in I don't notice it} Concentrate on the white dot. Ensure that the entire circle of the white dot is visible over the bottom of the notch in the rear sight but nothing more (no "black" under the dot). Put that dot directly where you want the projectile to hit (at 25 yards the dot will obliterate the bull on a target, you will not be able to see what you are in fact shooting at! Completely different to what you would be able to see with a 6 o'clock bullseye shooting hold)
The Glock is a high capacity combat pistol and the sights reflect that. Draw, put the dot on target, fire.
You will only frustrate yourself trying to "hold over", "hold under"... Full White dot on the out of focus blurry target, pull trigger.
Try it, you'll see. Then try it with both eyes open, focused only on the front post dot. Weird as he11 but it works...everytime.
Glock is a different set up. do not concern yourself with where the top of the sight post is in relation to the rear {I don't even concern myself with the rear sight anymore, as in I don't notice it} Concentrate on the white dot. Ensure that the entire circle of the white dot is visible over the bottom of the notch in the rear sight but nothing more (no "black" under the dot). Put that dot directly where you want the projectile to hit (at 25 yards the dot will obliterate the bull on a target, you will not be able to see what you are in fact shooting at! Completely different to what you would be able to see with a 6 o'clock bullseye shooting hold)
The Glock is a high capacity combat pistol and the sights reflect that. Draw, put the dot on target, fire.
You will only frustrate yourself trying to "hold over", "hold under"... Full White dot on the out of focus blurry target, pull trigger.
Try it, you'll see. Then try it with both eyes open, focused only on the front post dot. Weird as he11 but it works...everytime.
This happens to soooooo.... many people who buy a GLOCK as their first pistol. I wish you were at the same range as me. I could have helped you save a lot of time, money and frustration just by getting you to try a GLOCK with decent sights installed and/or showing you how your own pistol is sighted in now.
Get rid of those ridiculous 5 dollar plastic sights that came with your pistol. Those are not even real sights in my view. They are just meant to keep the sale price of the pistol down and then be discarded by each noob who buys a GLOCK and realizes that they are useless. Outside of film and televison, you will never see any police officer, military personel, competition shooter or anyone that knows what they are doing use those. I'm sorry to hear you wasted 2,500 rounds of ammunition on those sights ($750 at 30 cents a round in 9mm!!).
If you think this kind of sight picture is dumb, then I agree with you, but that is about how your GLOCK, and all others that still have those plastic "U-notch" sights are sighted in at 10m. If you think of the top of the rear sight being right at the middle of the front dot, that is how they shoot to point of aim. If you level the top of the rear sight with the top of the front sight you will shoot low every shot. The further the distance the lower the shot. At 10m you will be about 3 inches low, and about double that at 25m.
If you want to use a sight picture like this, the way everyone in the world expects it to be, you will have to buy new sights and install them. (Picture is of a different kind of pistol, but just for illustrative purposes... couldn't find the right photo in my photobucket account).
These are some Trijicon sights on a GLOCK 19. The 9mm/.40S&W sights are the same. The .45ACP sights are different.
You will be surprised how accurately you can learn to start shooting your GLOCK when it actually lines up the way you are expecting it to.
You should be beaning those metal plates at least 9 shots out of 10, even as a novice. 2 out of 10... even bad technique is unlikely to explain that. You've got a fundamental disconnect/misunderstanding about how your pistol works.
You could learn to shoot it the way it is, but I wouldn't. It is much slower to try and line up the top of the rear sight with the middle of the front dot... and your brain is clearly thinking in terms of levelling the sights anyway. Good luck.
Get rid of those ridiculous 5 dollar plastic sights that came with your pistol. Those are not even real sights in my view. They are just meant to keep the sale price of the pistol down and then be discarded by each noob who buys a GLOCK and realizes that they are useless. Outside of film and televison, you will never see any police officer, military personel, competition shooter or anyone that knows what they are doing use those. I'm sorry to hear you wasted 2,500 rounds of ammunition on those sights ($750 at 30 cents a round in 9mm!!).
If you think this kind of sight picture is dumb, then I agree with you, but that is about how your GLOCK, and all others that still have those plastic "U-notch" sights are sighted in at 10m. If you think of the top of the rear sight being right at the middle of the front dot, that is how they shoot to point of aim. If you level the top of the rear sight with the top of the front sight you will shoot low every shot. The further the distance the lower the shot. At 10m you will be about 3 inches low, and about double that at 25m.
If you want to use a sight picture like this, the way everyone in the world expects it to be, you will have to buy new sights and install them. (Picture is of a different kind of pistol, but just for illustrative purposes... couldn't find the right photo in my photobucket account).
These are some Trijicon sights on a GLOCK 19. The 9mm/.40S&W sights are the same. The .45ACP sights are different.
You will be surprised how accurately you can learn to start shooting your GLOCK when it actually lines up the way you are expecting it to.
You should be beaning those metal plates at least 9 shots out of 10, even as a novice. 2 out of 10... even bad technique is unlikely to explain that. You've got a fundamental disconnect/misunderstanding about how your pistol works.
You could learn to shoot it the way it is, but I wouldn't. It is much slower to try and line up the top of the rear sight with the middle of the front dot... and your brain is clearly thinking in terms of levelling the sights anyway. Good luck.
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Equal height, equal light, even with the stock plastic sights. Use a paper target and staple the crap out of it so it does't "blow away". Start close then progressively mover farther away from your target. Focus on the fundamentals of stable platform (stand like you are in a fist fight with someone) , proper grip (as much skin to pistol contact as possible), trigger press and proper sight alignment. Do this several thousand times and you should improve. You should also know how to evaluate why the rounds are going where on your target, a google search will help you there.
I've shot Glock pistols with several different types of sights, and even a Glock with no sights at all. Out to 15 meters you should be able to put your rounds in the "bottle" with almost any type of sighting system. At 25 meters, the plastic sights that Glocks ship with are perfectly fine to use the way they are designed. I'm not sure what type of groupings you are looking for but if you are looking to shoot the X out at 25 yards then buy a target pistol. Glocks are nice, simple combat pistols. But in the end, practice, practice, practice the right way... ...and then practice some more.
I've shot Glock pistols with several different types of sights, and even a Glock with no sights at all. Out to 15 meters you should be able to put your rounds in the "bottle" with almost any type of sighting system. At 25 meters, the plastic sights that Glocks ship with are perfectly fine to use the way they are designed. I'm not sure what type of groupings you are looking for but if you are looking to shoot the X out at 25 yards then buy a target pistol. Glocks are nice, simple combat pistols. But in the end, practice, practice, practice the right way... ...and then practice some more.
Sorry bud. Total fail. End of story. Want proof? Take your GLOCK pistol with your plastic sights. Level the top of the front sight with the top of the rear sight, lined up with your eye. Now get your buddy to look at you from the side, or snap a picture or whatever. YOU ARE POINTING THE GUN DISTINCTLY DOWN - hence why it will shoot 3 inches low at 10 metres.
Here are four representations of GLOCK sights: Some people think the correct sight picture for the plastic GLOCK sights is (1). If that works for you, great. In my experience working with new shooters and their GLOCK 17's, which is considerable, they need to have a sight picture more like (2) to shoot to point of aim - the top of the rear sight bi-sects the front dot. If anyone uses a sight picture like (3), they will shoot low, every shot, all day long, for sure, take it to the bank. Number (4) is a representation of the sight picture for the Trijicon night sights on a GLOCK - which I believe is far more how most people's brains work, and conducive to accuracy.
Here is another photo of one of my GLOCK 19's with Trijicons. It hard to get the camera in the same position your eye would be in, but it gives you an idea how they line up and how they differ from the plastic "U-notch" sights.
Please don't give advice if you have no idea what you are talking about. I've gone through this issue at my home range with, probably 40-50 people in the last 10 years. Everybody and their dog has got an opinion, especially on things like guns. The problem is most of the people have little experience and even less idea what they are talking about.
As a newbie I shot my G17 Low & Left with the stock sights. My Glocks (G17? & G21)now wear Trijicon Night sights and I still sometimes shot Low & Left if I haven't shot my HG's for a while.
I know my sights a dialed in so it's all about technique (or lack of). Strange thing is my revolvers don't act like my semi's
I know my sights a dialed in so it's all about technique (or lack of). Strange thing is my revolvers don't act like my semi's
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
Same here.
I have a G22 and used to have a G17 and they shot perfect with levelled sights.
The dot is for quick point and shoot as its easier to pick up, not for precise shooting.
