TSX - seating depth?

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alpining

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Hi all - I'm quite new to reloading, but I've managed to make some reliable handloads for my 308 using some traditionally-shaped spitzers. I picked up some 150gr Tipped TSX to make some hunting ammo, and I'm a bit thrown off by the grooves.

Do I need to seat to depth so that the grooves are all within the case neck? That seems pretty deep to me. In fact, it compresses loads that aren't listed as compressed in any of my manuals. I'd like to make some 180gr Tipped TSX ammo, too, and those suckers are even longer. Should I be worried about compressing the powder? Or am I wrong with my seating depth?

Thanks in advance
 
No need to hide the groove in the case,seat bullets as you normaly would,
don't drop them in the mud.
Personally I would skip the 180 TTSX because of the lenght and the velocities obtainable in the .308
 
Load to whatever data you have for your bullet/powder/casing combination. The grooves end up where they end up. You may want to invest in a lee factory crimping die, then you really don't have to worry about the grooves. (Plus roll crimping sucks on rifle cases)
 
Try starting with the forward-most groove being lined up with the mouth of the case. Also try the 130gr TTSX and 150gr TTSX. No need for the 180gr from the .308.
 
CharlesT said:
I'd look at the Barnes Data for COAL.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/308WinWeb.pdf

ct
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Yes. X2 ^!

Barnes provides the information for their bullets. No need to guess. BTW, the grooves on the Barnes TTSX/TSX are not necessarily for bullet seating or crimping as far as I know, they are to prevent pressure/copper fouling issues in the bore because of their solid copper design. Of course, always make sure the loaded cartridges will fit in the magazine, feed well, and are not protruding into the lands (i.e. short enough to feed, but long enough to touch/enter the lands - not good). Each rifle is a bit different than the next.
 
More importantly, how long can the cartridge be and still feed reliably from your magazine? Seating the bullets long has been fashionable for long enough that those of us who choose not to are viewed with suspicion. But more is lost than is gained by the practice when the cartridge is fired in a hunting rifle where cycling and reliability should be a greater concern that fractions of a MOA in accuracy. There's nothing like ejecting a cartridge only to have the powder dump inside the action and leave the bullet stuck in the chamber throat, thats not reliability.

But what about gains in accuracy, isn't that important? Well, lets say that you load some ammo for your pet thunder stick that produces 2 MOA groups, that's just terrible isn't it? That is until we consider that when properly sighted, your bullet impact will never exceed 1 MOA from your aiming point over normal hunting ranges, providing you can shoot up to your rifle. So you get a 300 yard shot on a game animal, your bullet will land somewhere within a 6" circle, no more than 3" from your point of aim. Given the typical 12" target that's available on broadside big game animals, 2 MOA or even 4 MOA has no advantage over 1 MOA to the outcome. Now, MOA rifles and loads are certainly desirable to the confidence of the rifleman, but I challenge you to even see 3" unaided at 300 yards.

I wouldn't load a TSX so long that it jams into the rifling, but I think magazine fed rifles do tend to cycle better when the COAL closely matches the magazine length. What those bands do provide is a handy place to crimp. Without going into the debate of the advantages/disadvantages of doing so, I think my ammo is just a bit better because I do crimp when the bullet has a groove or cannelure. Whether you choose to crimp or not, isn't going to have much impact on your field accuracy, but TSXs are one of the few bullets that provide multiple crimping points, which is just one more benefit beyond their tediously uniform terminal performance.
 
woodlotowner said:
Yes. X2 ^!

Barnes provides the information for their bullets. No need to guess. BTW, the grooves on the Barnes TTSX/TSX are not necessarily for bullet seating or crimping as far as I know, they are to prevent pressure/copper fouling issues in the bore because of their solid copper design. Of course, always make sure the loaded cartridges will fit in the magazine, feed well, and are not protruding into the lands (i.e. short enough to feed, but long enough to touch/enter the lands - not good). Each rifle is a bit different than the next.
Click to expand...

I mentioned seating the bullet down to the top groove, because that tends to be about 0.050" off the lands in many rifles, which is where Barnes recommends you start off. I've found that most TSX/TTSX bullets tend to shoot best at least 0.050" off the lands, all the way up to 0.130"...
 
Jordan,

We're on the same page here in terms of accuracy vis a vis bullet seating depth with the Barnes in question (i.e. not too critical as long as it is short of the lands). Those grooves ARE an incidentally convenient place to crimp too. :)
 
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Unless it is for a tubular magazine [30-30, 32 Spl, 38-55] I do not crimp any hunting ammo.
The Barnes monometal bullets seem to work best well off the lands.
Regards, Eagleye
 
jeff270 said:
crimping is overated for rifle ammo
never done it for 30-30----375H&H
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If you do not crimp for 30-30, and are using it in a tubular magazine, you will run into grief, sooner or later.
[The fact that it has not happened yet is no guarantee that it will not ever happen.]
If your tubular magazine is almost full, and you fire several rounds, then refill the magazine when you have one or two rounds still in it, there is the possibility of setting a bullet back in the case, with a high pressure result when the round is fired.
Eagleye.
 
I have fired hundreds of rounds through my 30-30 Marlin and never had a problem with bullets being pushed into the case .
I checked.
Good case neck tension is more important than crimp, imho.
Perhaps if I was shooting cast bullets or a hard kicking lever gun I would feel differently.
Since I havent had any problems with uncrimped bullets ,I'll keep on not crimping.
 
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