Tuners Question

powdergun

powdergun

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So I was researching tuning devices ( example: Tuna can ) and was wondering to what degree they are effective in improving accuracy with lower end ammunition. ( Rifle: Tikka T1X with threaded barrel)

1) Do they work to turn 2 MOA ammo to 1 MOA ammo ?
2) Do I forget about it and just buy good ammo ?
3) Do I do both ?

Note: Not looking compete just plink and shoot groups for fun.

Thanks in advance for all the input.
 
Nothing significantly improves accuracy performance of lower end ammunition.

If a tuner is to be used with effective results, in addition to skillful shooting two things are necessary.

The first is good, consistent ammo. While inexpensive ammo can occasionally produce good results, it can't do it consistently and repeatably.

The second is a good quality barrel that is able to shoot the good ammo well. The average factory barrel on an average sporter rifle often will not produce sufficiently consistent results to make the most of good ammo. If it can't do that, there's not much that a tuner can do to change it.
 
Consistent ammo comes from Eley, RWS and Lapua.
They all make ammo that has a lot number that means something.
The quality of their tested ammo relates to accuracy and within that lot is repeatable.
Their ammunition falls into three categories . . . good, better and best and with that comes increases in price.
Their testing procedures identify the best within their testing procedures.
Eley produces Match grades identified as TENEX, MATCH and TEAM. Their testing rates TENEX as the best.
The lot numbers on the box identifies a particular production line and the lot number produced within that year.
A lot number might have 30,000 - 35,000 rounds produced with a single billet of lead.
It is possible that progressive lots from a particular line would produce TENEX (06-218), MATCH (06-219) and TEAM (06-220).
What ELEY identified as TENEX shot to their standard in their four test rifles; With MATCH only three rifles shot that lot to their standard and less that that was TEAM. This is not to say that TEAM wold not perform better in your rifle.
A test conducted about four years ago identified a lot with a better average in my rifle. Four similar lots were tested without the tuner. Over time I have purchased between 10 and 15 thousand rounds of this lot number only because my supplier is special.
Once the first order was received, the tuner was re-installed and setting established. While some have settings for 50 yards and another for 100 Metres, I have not gone to that extent.
Tuners should make good ammo better, better ammo better and the best better there are no guarantees.
The theory behind tuners has merit IMO but only one is installed on one of by rifles . . . a Remington 40XB, with a Lilja barrel, a 2 oz trigger set at 4 oz, a MacMillan BR Stock and a Leupold Competition 45 x 45 scope. It can be beat but for the rest of my life it will have to do.
 
powdergun said:
So I was researching tuning devices ( example: Tuna can ) and was wondering to what degree they are effective in improving accuracy with lower end ammunition. ( Rifle: Tikka T1X with threaded barrel)

1) Do they work to turn 2 MOA ammo to 1 MOA ammo ?
2) Do I forget about it and just buy good ammo ?
3) Do I do both ?

Note: Not looking compete just plink and shoot groups for fun.

Thanks in advance for all the input.
Click to expand...

I own three different tuners with the Spearhead the latest purchase. My rifle is a 457 with a 16" Lilja barrel and my two goto ammo lot is a batch of CCI SV and Rem/Eley Match that shoots very well from my setup. You can search my profile for my past post on my tuner results.

To answer your questions in the simplest form:

1) Do they work to turn 2 MOA ammo to 1 MOA ammo ? As mentioned.... Garbage ammo is garbage ammo. So, No...
2) Do I forget about it and just buy good ammo ? No, don't forget about a tuner. Buy good quality match ammo for precision shooting and buy good decent ammo for plinking that shoots well out of your setup.
3) Do I do both ? If you don't mind travelling down the rabbit hole, yes, get both. Make sure your rifle is properly setup first. Good quality match ammo for your setup second. A tuner last.

Note: Not looking compete just plink and shoot groups for fun. Head over to RFC and search tuners. A wealth of information.

From my testing experience out of my 16" BB Lilja barrel with either the Tuna Can or Insite barrel tuner resulted in very little improvement at 50y and 100y. Come spring I'll do some testing with the new Spearhead.

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My apologies for not answering your specific questions . . .

1) Do they work to turn 2 MOA ammo to 1 MOA ammo ? No. I have only used Harrell Tuners.
2) Do I forget about it and just buy good ammo ? Good ammo goes bang . . . the only guarantee. Better ammo tested will give better results. Even the best ammo needs to be tested in your rifle.
3) Do I do both ? I do both in my Unlimited rifle, the Remington 40XB.

At our BR rimfire matches, tuners are on most rifles. Hunting rifle classes do not allow any attachment to the barrel.

While some consider CCI MiniMags better ammo, none of the rifles I use in competition will ever see copper washed ammunition.
Lot numbers on CCI ammunition is strictly for the manufacturer. You will never be able to replace a particular lot number. The manufacturing process is for mass production.
Is there a difference between their round nose and hollow point? One rifle produced 2" groups at 100 yards with round nose followed with HP's . . . 6" groups 6" left.
CCI Standard Velocity: the plastic trays off 100 are from their plant in Idaho. The paper boxes of 50 are manufactured under contract in Nebraska similar to Hornady and are equally bad. RFC subscribers claim the Idaho product to be better.

If there are any matches in your area your time would be well spent attending a match.
 
Mystic Precision said:
ROC, any chance you can weigh each tuner and let us know?

I know the tuna can is around 1lb - very curious about the other two

Jerry
Click to expand...

Tuna Can - 462g or 1.02lb
Spearhead - 343g or 0.75lb
Insite - 201g or 0.44lb

The Spearhead will be interesting to test as it can be adjusted both fore or aft.

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ROC, thanks for the info... Given what I have seen wrt to fouling, I will try and have my tuners moving BACK from the muzzle. The Spearhead design is heavy enough to do some good.

Be interesting to see how the locking bolts affect the inner threads over time.... Any chance those allen bolts have rubber tips?

Thanks for the pics.

Jerry
 
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Mystic Precision said:
ROC, thanks for the info... Given what I have seen wrt to fouling, I will try and have my tuners moving BACK from the muzzle. The Spearhead design is heavy enough to do some good.

Be interesting to see how the locking bolts affect the inner threads over time.... Any chance those allen bolts have rubber tips?

Thanks for the pics.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Nylon tip.
 
The ROC said:
From my testing experience out of my 16" BB Lilja barrel with either the Tuna Can or Insite barrel tuner resulted in very little improvement at 50y and 100y. Come spring I'll do some testing with the new Spearhead.
Click to expand...

RFBR shooters have the longest history with .22LR barrel tuners. They invariably use barrrels that are 24" - 26" in length and have a diameter in the 0.800" - 0.900" range. These dimension ranges seem to be the most responsive to tuners.

The 16" Lilja barrel that's 0.900" in diameter may well be too short for tuners to be effective. It's possible that more weight will help, but it's not clear.

As an aside, a couple of decades ago, when using tuners on RFBR rifles was beginning to become more popular, many shooters used extra weights. In fact, buying extra weights for Harrell/Hoehn type tuners was commonplace. Presently, the majority of competitive BR shooters are using standard Harrell or similar tuners. Currently some BR shooters with typical BR barrels report good results using Harrell-type tuners that are machined to be lighter, down to 4 - 5 ounces from the standard 8 ounce factory Harrell tuner.

Today, with the growth of PRS-style shooting, shooters looking for avenues for improved performance have created a demand and market for tuners that are being filled by the many newer makes of tuners. These, of course, must work the same way as the tuners used by RFBR shooters.
 
With a tuner, at what point are you messing with the escaping gas? Is there a formula for bore diameter vs tuner diameter? Is a larger diameter more advantageous from that perspective?
 
super7 said:
With a tuner, at what point are you messing with the escaping gas? Is there a formula for bore diameter vs tuner diameter? Is a larger diameter more advantageous from that perspective?
Click to expand...

I run a tuna can which is the longest tuner commonly used. Hasn't been an issue... this is rimfire remember. I am more concerned about powder fouling build up over time.... tuner is a weight. Change the weight, change its tune.

Scraping that fouling out is a PITA so am now trying to avoid it entirely.

Best scientific process for solving a monstrous multi variable problem..... a paper target way out there.

spoiler alert... the whole bore thing isn't going to matter in rimfire. But feel free to do some real world testing. Keyboard science really doesn't get you far.

Jerry
 
super7 said:
With a tuner, at what point are you messing with the escaping gas? Is there a formula for bore diameter vs tuner diameter? Is a larger diameter more advantageous from that perspective?
Click to expand...

For .22s, Bill Calfee's experiments would seem to indicate a minimum tuner bore diameter of 0.400 " was required. How that relates to larger calibers - I have no idea.
I have one tuner that takes an adapter that chokes the bore diameter down to around 0.300". Couldn't get that tuner to work - no way, no how - it shot worse than without it no matter the setting.
 
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