Turkey Hunters - Please Read!

44fordy

44fordy

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Hi Guys,

This was sent to me the other day. I've yet to research it, but thought I should post it to get some ideas of what's what on this topic.



Good morning everyone and Happy St.Patrick's Day



As many of you have heard, Friday the Peterborough MNR staff told Mr. Vanderspank(A nuisance farmer from Lanark) that he was going to be issued Wild Turkey Removal Authorizations(WTRA). This is terrible news for our turkey population in Eastern Ontario! This farmer is bragging how he can manipulate MNR in Peterborough and does not have to have any inspections from MNR in Kemptville to obtain these permits. He has also related to women in office not fighting him and being more lenient (puppets) to accepting his comments on problems that seem to only be occurring on his farm. He is also stating that he does not have to let MNR on his property anymore to obtain the 80 Deer Removal Authorizations. He has stated that no one comes on his property and he makes the rules.

The good news is that some of you called on Friday to the following phone numbers and put a hold on this utterly ridiculous decision made by someone on MNR that does not care about wildlife and should not be in that position of power. So for now the word from a Mike Gapt is that he promised to get more info from interested parties before any decision is made.

FYI-

Vanderspank has 80 agents listed on his DRAs and cannot legally sell these permits but he can give Land Access Permits in exchange for $$$ and then provides a DRA in this package. He now wants to provide WTRA to this land use package and again make more $. You do not need a permit to shot any nuisance animal in Ontario other than deer, moose. elk and caribou, if they are endangering your property. So why is MNR supporting this farmer and granting him these WTRAs? This is unbelievable. Without inspection of the damage! What a joke but this is way to serious to laugh.

Does anyone need to buy a turkey license if this gets passed? NO! Does the OFAH need to have turkey seminars anymore. NO! This will be as devastating to the turkeys as it has been to the deer.

There have been excessive deer and turkeys found dead from this record breaking snowfall this winter. Anyone that has been in the bush has found these animals perished. We need to stop this ridiculous decision and stop the DRAs until an assessment is made on the impact of this past winter.

STOP THE DRAs and DO NOT ISSUE THE WTRAs. As hunters, trappers, bird watchers, wildlife lovers and farmers, we need to send a powerful message to MNR in Peterborough and your MPP.

Mr.Vanderspank is threatened to close the MNR office in Kemptville as he did with the LLOA 5 years ago to obtain the DRAs. I say let him try. I have contacted the OPP and have found out what we can legally do to stop him but we will need to be organized a ready to go. If he has 20, I would say we should have 100 people. How many of us enjoy hunting and seeing these animals and now MNR in Peterborough is treating them like trash. This is not a lot to ask and if we spread the news we may get thousands of letters and phone calls to their office today and tomorrow and the next day if necessary.

Here are the names of the people Vanderspank states are helping him achieve his permits. I may not have the spelling correct as it has come from sources close to Vanderspank. I was a landowner and still have connections there but decided to leave when the DRAs were granted. Mr. Vanderspank was ejected from the LLOA and does not have their support now.

Mike Gapt- 705-755-3285
Debra Stepson 705-755-1925

Another person that has to be contacted is Sarah Baker from the Minister's office. 416-314-2210.

Vanderspank states he has her support.

Pass this on to everyone and anyone that you know that would support us. Even if they are from another area other than Eastern Ontario. I have friends in the US that are calling.

We all have to do this for the future of wildlife on Ontario!

Please call! Stop the DRAs and do not permit the WTRAs!

Thank you for supporting our wildlife!

Darcy Alkerton



PS, I will attach the proper e-mails when obtained.
 
Farmers battle bears on one hand and government rules on the other

Patrick Dare
The Ottawa Citizen

September 17, 2005

John Vanderspank, standing in his flattened cornfield, wonders who is the bigger threat to his life as a Lanark County farmer: The bear that's eating his crops or the government that's hauling him through court?

Dressed in suspenders and a T-shirt that tells government to "back off," Mr. Vanderspank is one of the most vocal government critics in Ontario on farm issues, as vice-president of the Lanark Landowners' Association. If there's a farmers' protest against the government in Eastern Ontario, Mr. Vanderspank will be there.

He's also fighting the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources in court, charged with several illegal hunting offences stemming from a hunting protest at his farm on Ferguson Falls Road on June 19, 2004.

Mr. Vanderspank doesn't hunt, but the Ministry of Natural Resources has charged him with helping two others illegally hunt the day of the protest.

The case is getting some public attention. Mr. Vanderspank's supporters staged a noisy demonstration one day this month at the Perth courthouse, where his trial was taking place before a justice of the peace. The trial resumes Sept. 29 when legal arguments will be heard. This fight will cost Mr. Vanderspank thousands of dollars.

The court case is just the latest shot in an ongoing battle Mr. Vanderspank and some of his neighbours have had with government generally and the provincial government and Ministry of Natural Resources specifically. These farmers, who call their cause "The Rural Revolution," want the ability to run farms without excessive government interference.

That includes having a free hand to shoot animals that come onto their property to eat their crops.

In recent years, Eastern Ontario counties such as Lanark have been inundated with deer and other wildlife. In Mr. Vanderspank's case, his farm losses -- for a cash-crop operation that covers 1,000 acres of owned and rented property -- totalled $30,000 to $40,000 some years. Road accidents involving deer have become routine occurrences in Eastern Ontario.

The Ministry of Natural Resources responded by expanding the hunting season and by allowing farmers with proven crop losses to apply for Deer Removal Authorizations, which allow them, or licensed hunters they enlist, to shoot deer outside the fall hunting season.

Indeed, Mr. Vanderspank, who is charged with aiding illegal hunting of white-tailed deer and groundhogs on his property, has a removal authorization to shoot deer on his farm. He regularly updates the authorization documentation with the Ministry of Natural Resources to get new names of hunters to patrol his huge property. The wildlife situation has improved at his farm, where he grows wheat, corn and hay, as well as soybeans destined for Japan. Mr. Vanderspank figures his losses this year will be about $10,000 to $15,000.

But Mr. Vanderspank and neighbour Merle Bowes, a vegetable farmer, are angry about all of the convoluted rules, paperwork, shuttling to government offices, meetings, big public spending and intrusive officials poking around their farms. And they consider the current legal action to be a retaliation for all of the in-your-face protests they have held in the last few years.

On Wednesday, Mr. Vanderspank and Mr. Bowes, both lifelong farmers, showed some of what they have to put up with: Swaths of cornfields flattened by bears and eaten by deer and raccoons. "There's a crop worth harvesting, isn't it?" says Mr. Bowes, pointing to half an acre of his friend's destroyed corn. Mr. Vanderspank adds, "They're just rolling through my fields like crazy right now."

Given the low prices farmers are getting for their crops, the current legal battle with Natural Resources is particularly unwelcome. Mr. Bowes, who spent $20,000 on government-encouraged deer fences for his vegetable fields, says he lost $3,000 worth of vegetables in a single night last year.

"We're already dealing with enough problems: Low prices and high costs," Mr. Bowes says. "This type of damage is not bearable. Economically it's not bearable."


These farmers feel environmentalists and animal lovers have more of a say on the management of farmland than farmers who own the land and raise the crops to feed the province.




Ross Stewart, Mr. Vanderspank's lawyer, says the losses suffered by these farmers due to wildlife damage threaten their businesses. "They're just trying to protect their livelihood," Mr. Stewart says. "These are just honest, hard-working guys who I think have got caught up in some pretty extensive bureaucratic red tape."

Mr. Bowes, also a vice-president of the Lanark Landowners' Association, says he began trying to get the province to do something about the exploding deer population in 1996. "It's been nothing but frustrating," he says. "I've sat at my table in the winter time just about pulling my hair out. The best thing for me to do, because of deer, was just quit. Just quit. And it wasn't as though this was an animal that was not abundant." He doesn't even bother trying to grow corn.

These farmers feel environmentalists and animal lovers have more of a say on the management of farmland than farmers who own the land and raise the crops to feed the province.

The farmers are also upset that they are treated as potentially dangerous persons by Natural Resources staff. Government officers swooped down on Ferguson Falls last June, with a team that included a small aircraft and a canine unit. When conservation officers show up to ask questions or attend public meetings, they're wearing body armour and a gun. If Mr. Vanderspank is convicted of any of the offences he is charged with under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, the possible penalties are fines of up to $25,000 or one year in jail.

"It's always been threats, it's always been enforcement and intimidation," says Mr. Vanderspank.

"I have absolutely no trust for these people," says Mr. Bowes.

Steve Aubry, enforcement supervisor for Natural Resources in Eastern Ontario, says conservation officers must enforce the law and lay charges when they see infractions of regulations. They wear protective clothing and carry sidearms, pepper spray and batons because they deal with poachers, often at night. Mr. Aubry says last year's June 19 event at Ferguson Falls was advertised as an illegal hunt, so officers were present to protect public safety, enforce the law that protects wildlife and ensure that any hunters were licensed to hunt.

The ministry says that it has given deer removal authorizations to 59 farmers in Eastern Ontario this year, paperwork that allows farmers to "harass and/or remove" deer when other methods of control have failed. Farmers apply for the permits and have a site inspection before they are granted.

The biggest controller of the deer population is the annual fall hunt. Last November's deer hunt saw 21,700 animals killed in Eastern Ontario.

The continuing friction with the Ministry of Natural Resources has taken a toll, says Mr. Vanderspank. "The stress this last couple of years, with MNR chasing me so hard, it's been unbelievable. It's been hard on my family life. You kind of end up getting possessed by it. You're always looking over your shoulder."

He hopes for an end to the legal fight.

"All we're trying to do is save our crops. We're trying to make a living. We just want to farm."

© The Ottawa Citizen 2005
 
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You know......

Deer, turkeys, bears etc etc....don't CHOOSE to be that.

Farmers CHOOSE to be farmers, and although I can sorta sympathize with some of the issues they have, it's hard for me to have a bleeding heart when they drive by in the new Lincoln truck or the half million dollar new Case Intl tractor with all the fixins.

Seriously, if most of us ##### and wine about our job, we'll be told "QUIT, and go get a different job!"

Well, what's the difference? Sell the farm and go do something else!

Famers Feed Cities! If there were no cities, the farmers wouldn't have a job now would they.
 
Mr. Vanderspank and our MPP Randy Hillier are pretty tight, he might also be pulling strings to get the permits.
 
Well it sure doesn't sound like you boys are farming for a living. I'm not one of those farmers that are driving Lincolns or 250 thousand dollar tractors. You haven't got a stock check that says your beef that costs 85cents a pound to raise just went for 43 cents at the stock yards. You don't look out every morning and see 30-40 turkeys digging around in your corn silage which is making it useless for feed for your stock. Heck the turkeys don't leave the bunker silo they roost on the sides. You haven't seen acres of corn pulled down by the bears after a summers work and diesel fuel has been put into it. If you don't like the way we do things well think about this. Its our crops that have made the deer and turkey population to grow to these levels. With out us a lot of hunters wouldn't have a place to hunt. So we try to protect of lively hood and actually try to make a dollar just like you do and yet we are fighting a lot harder battle and now you guys get upset when a man wants to do something about it. What maybe you don't realize is that the landowners have a lot of members and they are a Ontario wide organization many of which are farmers and people who let hunters onto our land. If you really get us mad then we just wont allow hunting at all and see where that places a bunch of city hunters. Just maybe you will see our point.
 
You have some good points, carew.
I'm sure there can be much much debate on this topic. Personally, I do understand the damage that animals can cause crops. (I have farmers in my family and have seen what they do).
And, I don't have problems with farmers removing pesky wildlife, but I do think it should be gone about in a way that makes sence for everyone.
 
Turkeys have become a major problem for some farmers/apple growers, even surpassing the deer damage. A group of turkeys will walk around an apple tree and peck at every apple they can reach. Why? Who knows, but it cause a lot of damage.

I can see the need to thin them out in some areas. I have had farmers ask me to shoot them when I see them. They must be pretty bad as these farmers are pretty understanding and dont see all wildlife as pests.
 
My FIL has a farm, and deer and turkeys on it, but doesn't have the crop damage to go with it. I know the costs of farming, and the big shiny tractors have payments to go with them.;)

If this is such a problem, let some hunters pay to hunt these hungry beasts, and make up some of the losses. From what I've seen in this area, and I'm only 70Km from Mr. Vanderspank-it, the flocks break up before the spring hunt, and do little damage in the summer.

A farm by my dad's had 250 turkeys on it this winter, but now they've spread out.

As for the deer, the MNR already allows hunters to buy up to 6 tags for his area, and they can use them all in the rifle season if they want, so get 6 guys together that know how to shoot and you'll cull 30-50 deer right there.

The Landowners Association there was just shooting the deer in illegal culls in the summer and burying them.
 
mudgunner49 said:
Never cuss a farmer with your mouth full!!!

As someone who grew up on a farm, you can't just "do something else" - there is way more to it than that. And BTW - farmers don't need cities to survive but the reverse is not true...


blake
Click to expand...

C'mon, I grew up on a farm. My parents did lots of other things. There's NO such thing as "can't" but there is such a thing as "won't".

Cites probably need farmers as much as the reverse.
Who buys the groceries?

Sure, folks in the country do too. Me personally, if there were no farmers, no stores etc.... I can grow my own crops and kill enough animals to feed the family for the year.
But that's me. Alot of people "won't" do that.

Every man is a born hunter...most just don't realize it.
 
44fordy said:
C'mon, I grew up on a farm. My parents did lots of other things. There's NO such thing as "can't" but there is such a thing as "won't".

Cites probably need farmers as much as the reverse.
Who buys the groceries?

Sure, folks in the country do too. Me personally, if there were no farmers, no stores etc.... I can grow my own crops and kill enough animals to feed the family for the year.
But that's me. Alot of people "won't" do that.

Every man is a born hunter...most just don't realize it.
Click to expand...

Touche - at least in part. I was generalizing more than a bit. My Dad was a heavy equipment mechanic for years and I joined the Army - still love the farm though. I still believe that cities need farmers more than vice versa...


blake
 
mudgunner49 said:
Touche - at least in part. I was generalizing more than a bit. My Dad was a heavy equipment mechanic for years and I joined the Army - still love the farm though. I still believe that cities need farmers more than vice versa...


blake
Click to expand...


I grew up on a farm. (Not a major operation, but big enough)

I still miss it .....
 
I have lived on a farm and in the city so I know both perspectives. Farmers need to protect their livelyhood but there also needs to be some balance to the matter. Now one thing that I am not understanding, I was under the understanding that a farmer could kill any animal that was attacking his crops or livestock....so why would he get in trouble for defending his livelihood?

I also think there has to be some way to "discourage" animals from invading crops aside from extermination. Hell wasn't that what a scarecrow was all about? lol
 
mandarb11 said:
I have lived on a farm and in the city so I know both perspectives. Farmers need to protect their livelyhood but there also needs to be some balance to the matter. Now one thing that I am not understanding, I was under the understanding that a farmer could kill any animal that was attacking his crops or livestock....so why would he get in trouble for defending his livelihood?

I also think there has to be some way to "discourage" animals from invading crops aside from extermination. Hell wasn't that what a scarecrow was all about? lol
Click to expand...

Farmers can definately kill animals that are harassing their livestock. In ontario, they need to contact the MNR if they are suffering from crop damage caused by wildlife. At that point, an MNR rep will come to the farm, assess the damages and issue nuisance wildlife tags, if the consultant sees fit.
But no, you can't just shoot a deer because he's in your cornfield.

A way to "discourage" animals is to call me!! hahaha I can "discourage" them away from the crops and into the pan!

;)
 
44fordy said:
In ontario, they need to contact the MNR if they are suffering from crop damage caused by wildlife. At that point, an MNR rep will come to the farm, assess the damages and issue nuisance wildlife tags, if the consultant sees fit.[COLOR="black"]But no, you can't just shoot a deer because he's in your cornfield.[/COLOR]

A way to "discourage" animals is to call me!! hahaha I can "discourage" them away from the crops and into the pan!

;)
Click to expand...

and that is the problem right there!
 
JohnC said:
and that is the problem right there!
Click to expand...

I'd be inhabiting alot of cornfields!! haha

It's a double edged sword I think... From a "Conservation" standpoint, it probably makes the most sence. You'd have a free for all if it weren't.

Should be less crop damage this year anyway, I think God and Mother Nature did their own little conservation project with the winter that is ending. We think..
 
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