Two Big Guns

[tiriaq]

This is a gunsmith made double. He used a couple of India Pattern Brown Bess barrels - 39" long. The locks are conventional "hardware store" locks.
The original breech plugs were reworked to produce the hooks to engage the handmade standing breech/tang. The oversized trigger guard is also a one-off.
The nipples use musket caps. There was no provision for a ramrod.
This is a big gun - it weighs about 16 pounds.
I think it was intended to be used for market hunting, firing at birds on the ground or water.






I have three other big smoothbores:
Another gunsmith made brown Bess Bess barreled double, originally flint, converted to cap, 14 pounds;
a commercial Belgian double, also 14 pounds, and,
a single shot Newfoundland sealing gun.

 

[jpc]

Impressive !

 

[tiriaq]

Whoever made this gun, and the maker of the other gun I mentioned were good. They do not have styling similarities which would indicate the same maker, but I find it interesting that two gunsmith made doubles using Brown Bess barrels have turned up in Ontario. Although the guns are plain, the workmanship is professional.

 

[mooncoon]

have you shot it or are you going to shoot it ? I have run across 2 or 3 cartridge shotguns with 8 guage frames but 10 guage barrels. Presumably for heavy charges

cheers mooncoon

 

[Stephen Nash]

What a monster! A real conversation starter.

"Although the guns are plain, the workmanship is professional."

Indeed. That's very good work and a very interesting 'conversion'. Fantastic Canadiana!

 

[tiriaq]

I'll take some photos of the other Bess barreled piece. It is quite different. The barrels were shortened to 37" and rebreeched. I measured the diameters throughout the length, and they most definitely are Bess barrels.
Wish the makers had signed them, I'm sure they are Canadian made. Most Canadian gunmakers had die stamps to mark their work.
I've not fired this one - haven't scrubbed out the bores yet. Truth be told, I would have to shoot it with a rest. It is quite ungainly.
I have fired the big Belgian commercial double, although not with heavy loads. At 14 pounds, recoil is a real push.

Years ago I inspected a British single big game rifle. It was smoothbored for the first inch, I assume to allow a patched ball to be started. Don't know the caliber, but I could put my thumb in the muzzle. The rifle was known to have gone to Africa a couple of times. Unless my memory fails me, it weighed about as much as this double. It balanced and swung nicely, as would befit a dangerous game rifle. I expect a gunbearer got to carry it.

 

[green]

Did you have that at the London ON gun show about 1970-5?

 

[tiriaq]

Not this one; maybe the other I've mentioned.

 

[tiriaq]

Here is the other big gun made with India Pattern barrels. They were shortened to 37" and rebreeched.
The locks, originally flint, were a pair of rather late locks, marked "SMITH". The gun was made in flint - see the relief cuts for the cocks in the lock mouldings.
The brass trigger guard's finial is a style from the 1740s.
The brass buttplate appears to be from a Long Land musket.
So the gun was assembled using a variety parts made over a span of perhaps 75 years.
The styling details suggest it is much early that the other big gun in this thread. The workmanship is professional.
The makers went to a lot of effort to make these guns.

 

[Stephen Nash]

Wow! A very interesting gun, number two.

 

[tiriaq]

Given the weight and ungainly handling of these guns, they obviously weren't intended for wing shooting. Repurposing musket barrels could make sense, given how frugal folks had to be.
A service musket was about 11 gauge - .75 - .77 caliber. Heavy walled compared to a shotgun barrel. How much shot could be reasonably loaded in a .75 barrel? 2 1/2oz? 3oz? To efficiently sluice a flock of birds on the ground from a prepared position, a heavy charge would be needed. Market hunting guns with purpose built barrels tended to be 8, 6 or even larger gauge, and weigh about the same.
I'd love to know the stories behind these big guns. Who made them, who had them made.