Two Pattern 1853 Rifle-Muskets and a Pattern 1856 Cavalry Carbine.
- Thread starter drm3m
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Nice looking! That carbine is awesome!
I am no expert and may well be out to lunch but I would not think the carbine is an EI pattern. Most of the India ones I have seen had a fixed rear sight? This one also does not seem to be marked with the EIC lion stamp?
Also, I believe the large number 1 below the roundel is the class of arm ie first class vs 2nd class?
I am no expert and may well be out to lunch but I would not think the carbine is an EI pattern. Most of the India ones I have seen had a fixed rear sight? This one also does not seem to be marked with the EIC lion stamp?
Also, I believe the large number 1 below the roundel is the class of arm ie first class vs 2nd class?
CMichaud,
This is what I was told by someone that knows a lot more about these carbines than I do. (Before I bought it)
These were his comments;
Your carbine is a standard P56 East India Pattern carbine, but was issued to a British regular unit, hence the numeral 1 and the Tower roundel. The 1 signifies issue to a regular Army/cavalry unit.
That is a nice carbine. It appears to be a straight British issue piece as it has the WO stamp and a 1 class designation.
"The large figure beneath the roundel denoted the class of arm. Those in the first class were for issue to regular troops, those in the second for the volunteers and the Militia, whilst the third class was reserved for recruit drilling in regimental depots. Any first class arm which had been repaired to any great extent was regarded as second class and the stock marked with a figure '2' in place of the '1'." - Subsequent repairs resulted in additional figure 2's. It is not uncommon to find a weapon with a 1, sometimes struck through, and also a large 2, but occasionally a piece will have a 1, and two 2's.
The P56 carbines are fascinating because there were many variants. I once owned one made at the Madras Arsenal and so marked; it had seven groove rifling. A friend really wanted it and swapped me something interesting for it. The arms made at Madras and at Fort William Arsenal in India were of excellent quality.
I think that it would be nice to have a P56 cavalry carbine in your CW collection. They are a fine weapon and were very popular with the Confederates. They are excellent shooters. It's very difficult to find one that was actually used in the War and even harder to find one that retains its original sling ring and bar. It seems that many of the carbines were used as barn guns following the War. The P56 was much liked by Jeb Stuart and his ordnance officer John Esten Cooke. I have one carried by a trooper in the Georgia cavalry and several others without provenance to an individual.
This is what I was told by someone that knows a lot more about these carbines than I do. (Before I bought it)
These were his comments;
Your carbine is a standard P56 East India Pattern carbine, but was issued to a British regular unit, hence the numeral 1 and the Tower roundel. The 1 signifies issue to a regular Army/cavalry unit.
That is a nice carbine. It appears to be a straight British issue piece as it has the WO stamp and a 1 class designation.
"The large figure beneath the roundel denoted the class of arm. Those in the first class were for issue to regular troops, those in the second for the volunteers and the Militia, whilst the third class was reserved for recruit drilling in regimental depots. Any first class arm which had been repaired to any great extent was regarded as second class and the stock marked with a figure '2' in place of the '1'." - Subsequent repairs resulted in additional figure 2's. It is not uncommon to find a weapon with a 1, sometimes struck through, and also a large 2, but occasionally a piece will have a 1, and two 2's.
The P56 carbines are fascinating because there were many variants. I once owned one made at the Madras Arsenal and so marked; it had seven groove rifling. A friend really wanted it and swapped me something interesting for it. The arms made at Madras and at Fort William Arsenal in India were of excellent quality.
I think that it would be nice to have a P56 cavalry carbine in your CW collection. They are a fine weapon and were very popular with the Confederates. They are excellent shooters. It's very difficult to find one that was actually used in the War and even harder to find one that retains its original sling ring and bar. It seems that many of the carbines were used as barn guns following the War. The P56 was much liked by Jeb Stuart and his ordnance officer John Esten Cooke. I have one carried by a trooper in the Georgia cavalry and several others without provenance to an individual.
I believe the proper description is just "rifle musket" "rifled musket" was originaly a smoothbore that was rifled at a later date. Considering these were Confederate guns they are in remarkable condition.
There was only one Confederate gun---a P/53 lock marked-- Tower/1861.
It has a #1121 Confederate Inventory Number engraved on the butt plate tang---traces of JS/anchor behind the trigger guard.
lyman54
"I believe the proper description is just "rifle musket" "rifled musket" was originaly a smoothbore that was rifled at a later date".
You are absolutely correct ---thank you.
It is actually hyphenated---Rifle-Musket.
I re-did one of the photos where that error was made.
It has a #1121 Confederate Inventory Number engraved on the butt plate tang---traces of JS/anchor behind the trigger guard.
lyman54
"I believe the proper description is just "rifle musket" "rifled musket" was originaly a smoothbore that was rifled at a later date".
You are absolutely correct ---thank you.
It is actually hyphenated---Rifle-Musket.
I re-did one of the photos where that error was made.
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I’ve have what I believe is a p56 carbine (possibly a cavalry carbine). It came from the millarm museum, one of three he had there. All had the saddle bar/rings removed and iron inlays (can’t remember what those washers are called that go into the wood that the lock screw heads go in to protect the stock) put I there place along time ago. On the old millarm page it has it from Montreal, I would have thought new Brunswick. I’m looking forward to running into Allen at the next Edmonton gun show so he can tell me it’s history and where he got it from
