Type 54 and TT33 study photos.

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i took some pics of my two Type 54s after i noticed how different they were. one is a 64' the other a 67'. i thought you guys might find the photos interesting. if anyone has pics of there military TT33s broke down would you post them up? so we can see differences? like the M57 and polish and Russian guns.? i dont have any my self just Chinese.

























 
They are nice examples, although doesn't look like they are matching numbers guns. They are direct copy of Soviet post war pistols. As they are made on soviet supplied equipment that was given to them as aid in 1950s.
I personally have a soft spot for them. They are cheap enough to collect.
 
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Interesting comparisons. I have found that same minor differences in most of my eastern European arms like mosins, sks, svt etc..... these were largely hand machined meaning that when Boris worked the tools and die after 10yrs in the plant his work would be distinguishable from Vladamir who started a few months ago..... etc...Sometimes its not the firearm that makes it great but the craftsman that made them which make one firearm better than the other in the same model.
 
I'm a lazy sort, so I'll cross post this from my original post in the pistol section:

I thought I'd contribute some background info on the military Tokarev pistol variants in Canada, if nobody minds.

Essentially, there are 4 types of military tokarevs that are regularly encountered: The Russian TT33, the Polish PW wz.33, the Chinese Type 54, and the Yugoslavian M57.

There are three other types of tokarev pistols in Canada that you are FAR less likely to encounter and generally are only really sought out by collectors: The Russian TT30, the Romanian TTC Cugir and the Hungarian M48. Of these, the Hungarian pistols are the easiest to find and don't command a significant premium in cost, but they are uncommon enough that most people will never see one for sale. Romanian guns have only come in as US imports (bubba modified with superfluous safeties, altered grips, etc.) and the very occasional case of one or two collectible examples being in with a bunch of Russian pistols from a baltic state. TT30's are around, but are horendously expensive and easy to spot with a removable back strap.

There are a few other variants of which there are none in Canada and nearly none in the west at all: The North Korean Type 68, the Pakistani Khyber Pass copies, and the Vietnamese K54.

I'm only going to cover the 4 most common guns with photos.

As a grouping, at 12 o'clock and going clockwise: Russian TT33 (wartime with coarse slide serrations), Yugo military M57, Polish PW wz.33, and Chinese Type 54.

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In looking at these variants, the Russian is often encountered in two primary variants: Wartime guns (1945 and earlier) have coarse serrations that alternate thick/thin (like the Russian gun in the above pictures), and in 1946 the slide serrations were changed to a uniform fine serration pattern identical to that on the Type 54 pistol also pictured above.

The primary frame markings (serial numbers and sometimes factory info), are always on the left side of the frame with the exception of the Yugo M57, which is on the right. Russian and Chinese guns have the factory identifier here, while Polish and Yugo guns do not.

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Here you will see the slide markings. Matching guns will be serialized on both the frame and the slide. Markings from top to bottom:
1) Yugo M57 national crest. This is a late "O" series gun, so it sports a 6 torch variant of the yugo national crest. Earlier guns have 5 torch crests.
2) Chinese Type 54. The chinese Characters translate to "Type 54) with the full serial number underneath. Some believe these serial numbers follow the Factory 26 date of manufacture convention, so with a 31 prefix, this gun may have been made in 1985 (31+1954). I have my doubts, though the chinese military made and issued the Type 54 until some time in the 1990's.
3) Polish tokarev, marked with the Factory No.11 logo and full serial number.Polish guns were made from 1947 to 1955. Most of these guns were sold in Canada advertised as "unissued" or "as new", but in fact, most are refurbished.
4) 1945 Izhevsk-made Russian TT33 with the serial number, factory logo (izhevsk triangle in a circle) and year of manufacture.

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Next we will talk about matching serial numbers.

Polish guns are numbered as follows:
- Frame, slide, barrel, barrel bushing, hammer assembly (sear and hammer are also serialized, but you have to disassemble the hammer group to see it). The guns were originally issued with two numbered matching magazines (numbered on base plates).
This is a polish gun disassembled showing the hammer assembly and barrel bushing are mis-matched. As mentioned, while externall very nicely finished, most of these guns were refurbished at least once, and it's common for the bushing and hammer group to not be matching. I bought this gun from a well known dealer as "matching, as-new". Clearly the dealer did not understand how to ID a polish refurb.

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Chinese guns are numbered as follows:
-Frame, Slide, Barrel, barrel bushing and hammer assembly. Sub-assemblies of the hammer are not numbered. The two issue magazines had matching baseplates.

The chinese tokarevs are distinguished by their chrome lined bore. For this reason, I tend to shoot the chinese guns with the cheap corrosive ammo.

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Russian guns are numbered as follows:
-Frame, slide, barrel, hammer assembly, and two matching magazines. The pictures here are of an unissued 1952 Izhevsk. Note that on the late production guns, the slide only has a serial number and no factory identifier or year.

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A quick way to ID non-refurb Russian tokarevs is to look at the back of the hammer group. In addition to non-refurbs not having renumbered parts or a GRAU repair facility mark (like a square with a line through it) on the frame - the back of the hammer group will be in the ####e where it was filed flush to the frame during original assembly.

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Yugo guns will be numbered as follows:
- Slide, Frame and barrel will be pantographed matching (like a WW2 inglis high power). The frame (in mouth of mag well), slide (inside ejection port), hammer assembly, and barrel will also be electro-pencilled with an assembly number.

Of the guns pictured, the yugo model is the most unique. It holds 9 rounds of ammo, not the standard 8 rounds. The grip is longer to accomodate that and you therefore can't use 8 round mags in the yugo. The firing pin mechanism is held using the 1911 system of a sliding pin retainer, not a pin through the slide. The magazine release buton is almost twice the diameter of a normal tokarev. There is also a magazine safety - the gun cannot be cycled without a magzine inserted. The slide has a raised ramp for the dovetailed front sight and there are anti-glare serrations on top of the slide.

It's the same basic tokarev pistol, but more advanced with added features.

Now to cover typical issue holster rigs:

Russian - can be either leather or Kirza. Virtually all holsters to be imported with pistols to Canada are post-war varieties. I like the Kirza version myself as they are more pliable. All have belt loops, cleaning rod on the outside, an extra mag pouch, and a leather lanyard.

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Polish - made of high quality brown leather. Original cleaning rods are brass.

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Chinese - made of light tan leather, comes with a leather shoulder strap, steel cleaning rod, and an extra magazine pouch with pull tabs.

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Yugo - made of light tan leather, more unique than the other holsters depicted. It has a small cleaning rod/disassembly combination tool on the inside of the holster (pulled up in the picture to demonstrate). The mag is mounted backwards compared to the other holsters.

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And here are the backs of the holsters. Note that those holsters with shoulder strap D-rings also have belt loops in the leather ring mounts.

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Thanks Claven for re-posting, it reminded me of something I meant to comment on earlier:

A quick way to ID non-refurb Russian tokarevs is to look at the back of the hammer group. In addition to non-refurbs not having renumbered parts or a GRAU repair facility mark (like a square with a line through it) on the frame - the back of the hammer group will be in the ####e where it was filed flush to the frame during original assembly.

Mine does have the GRAU stamp, but the hammer group is in the white.

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I bought it from Lever a few years back. All matching, even one of the mags. I vaguely recall it was sold as refurbished.
 
It just means the hammer group in your gun likely came out of another gun and was not reblued at that time.

Notice how it's not flush with the frame? I was originally in a gun where the rear curvature of the slide was a little more rounded.
 
looks really good! thanks for posting. if you ever take them down part for part please post. i am also mostly interested when changes took place. like the slide cuts on the russian gun is an easy giveaway.

there is also a type 51 Chinese Tok. it has more markings on it and i am hoping out of the lot of surplus type 54s one might turn up in there. its easy to tell it apart.

also one other thing i found is the mags are different. here is a pic.


 
A quick way to ID non-refurb Russian tokarevs is to look at the back of the hammer group. In addition to non-refurbs not having renumbered parts or a GRAU repair facility mark (like a square with a line through it) on the frame - the back of the hammer group will be in the ####e where it was filed flush to the frame during original assembly.

I would not rely on the look of the back of hammer group at all. Some examples of original condition had it either blued or having same patina as surrounding blued surfaces. Sometimes it's really hard to say. So as to making assessment about condition originality I would go with combination of following observations: type of bluing, refurb markings, fonts of serials, surface wear consistent with age.
 
It just means the hammer group in your gun likely came out of another gun and was not reblued at that time.

Notice how it's not flush with the frame? I was originally in a gun where the rear curvature of the slide was a little more rounded.

Ok, thanks then. That makes sense.
 
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